Self-defense

[maat55]

This raises another of my concerns. Does a gun actually help? If you are attacked and you are armed and the attacker isn't, drawing your gun might help. Or it might result in a struggle with the attacker where you are at risk of being shot with your own weapon.

If you are both armed, it becomes a speed contest. Who can draw and fire faster? Since the attacker came in prepared and you were caught by surprise, there is a reasonable chance that the attacker will win the race. As in the original post, had the victim had a gun, would the attacker have responded the same way and left without using his gun or would he have shot the victim to avoid being shot himself.

The ideas is, that you know your house better and they have to get in. Most times they will make noise in the attempt giving you time to get ready.
I'll take my chances with the gun. One ,of the many reasons, I would be detoured from entering someones home without permission is that i'm afraid I will be shot for it.

[disneysteve]

The ideas is, that you know your house better and they have to get in.

That's true depending on the situation. With many home invasions, the person rings the bell and then storms in when you open the door. Unless you take your gun with you everytime you open your door, it wouldn't help you.

OP also mentioned getting a concealed weapon permit. If you are going to carry all the time, if somebody jumps you on the street, you probably will not have time to draw your gun either.

You wouldn't enter a home without permission for fear of being shot, but you are a sane, , sober, rational individual. The people that commit crimes like this are none of those things. Often, they are whacked out on drugs. They don't give any thought to possible consequences of their actions.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Gotta agree about what will a gun do? I have no issues with owning a gun, many of my family members do own them at home. I've been raised with guns in the house, but I am not qualified to own them. I don't feel the need currently to own a gun. I think it might hurt the situation more than helping it.

We used to live between 2 cops in a bad neighborhood. I asked them once about owning a gun? Both gave me the same answer, get a big dog. Ah well, I got two small white furballs. Guess I'm screwed.

Truth is that I also grew up with german shepard and a doberman in the house. We'd been burglarized when my mom got the dobie, and never again. Previously, my grandparents house a man tried to walk into the yard at night and the german shepards bite basically his face off. No one entered the farm again without calling.

Interestingly my grandfather wanted to see what one would do with us kids in the car. Couldn't get near the car unless you wanted your throat torn out. These were trained show quality german shepards. Then my grandpa got a rott and that too was quite protective.

Guess I'll get a real dog one day.

[maat55]

That's true depending on the situation. With many home invasions, the person rings the bell and then storms in when you open the door. Unless you take your gun with you everytime you open your door, it wouldn't help you.

OP also mentioned getting a concealed weapon permit. If you are going to carry all the time, if somebody jumps you on the street, you probably will not have time to draw your gun either.

You wouldn't enter a home without permission for fear of being shot, but you are a sane, , sober, rational individual. The people that commit crimes like this are none of those things. Often, they are whacked out on drugs. They don't give any thought to possible consequences of their actions.

I won't deny that evil people have the upper hand, but I for one will not lay down for them. Having a gun may not help in every case, but it will in many, so I will have one in those cases. Dumb, drugged out crazy's will die at my house. If someone I don't know, enters my house uninvited, they will be shot, whether they have a weapon or not. I know that's easier said, but I have conditioned myself along time for that possibility.

It's always been my belief, that your home is your safe place and is not to be trespassed. I reserve the right to kill anyone who crosses that line. A home is sacred.

[m3racer]

That's true depending on the situation. With many home invasions, the person rings the bell and then storms in when you open the door. Unless you take your gun with you everytime you open your door, it wouldn't help you.

OP also mentioned getting a concealed weapon permit. If you are going to carry all the time, if somebody jumps you on the street, you probably will not have time to draw your gun either.

You wouldn't enter a home without permission for fear of being shot, but you are a sane, , sober, rational individual. The people that commit crimes like this are none of those things. Often, they are whacked out on drugs. They don't give any thought to possible consequences of their actions.

Wow, great responses! I guess one has to personally decide if gun ownership is the right choice. If your mindset is, "a gun is only going to make a situation worse" than you shouldn't get one. On the flip side, I've been told by several LEOs to get one. They told me to take classes so that I would be mentally prepared for every possible situation. They've told me they know of countless incidents where the assailant was thwarted because the potential victim had a gun. However, the key was the victim knew what they were going to do before the event occurred. I'm sure when this happens you get tunnel vision and only have seconds to make a decision. The whole idea is that getting a gun and firing it should just be a programmed response. Pretty scary stuff IMO.

[zakity]

Someone with a long driveway posted a sign about half-way up the drive "Warning: You are now in range." It had a picture of a rifle or a pistol (can't remember) on it. I thought it was great!

[m3racer]

Someone with a long driveway posted a sign about half-way up the drive "Warning: You are now in range." It had a picture of a rifle or a pistol (can't remember) on it. I thought it was great!

LOL...That's great! Where do I get one?

[gackle]

This raises another of my concerns. Does a gun actually help? If you are attacked and you are armed and the attacker isn't, drawing your gun might help. Or it might result in a struggle with the attacker where you are at risk of being shot with your own weapon.

If you are both armed, it becomes a speed contest. Who can draw and fire faster?

OP also mentioned getting a concealed weapon permit. If you are going to carry all the time, if somebody jumps you on the street, you probably will not have time to draw your gun either.

There's a lot of "what if"s in your arguments, Steve. Obviously you will be right in some instances, but the fact is, at least in Texas, I hear stories in the news about once a month of intruders meeting their timely demise by armed homeowners. I think m3racer is on to it - having it ingrained in your psyche what you'll do when your home is broken into and being trained to use your gun can probably be the difference between life and death. Let's not forget that the homeowners also have the advantage of adrenaline pumping that allows feats to be performed that normally could not be.

[Broken Arrow]

We used to live between 2 cops in a bad neighborhood. I asked them once about owning a gun? Both gave me the same answer, get a big dog. Ah well, I got two small white furballs. Guess I'm screwed.

Not at all! Though no one would argue that a well-trained German Shepard or Rottie would be the ideal choice, any barking dog will do. Dogs greatly contribute to the "Awareness" factor, and that's really what's important. Alarms basically perform the same function, but I agree that dogs are the better choice.

Just to be clear, I wouldn't recommend a dog only for the sake of security, but if someone is a dog lover who is committed to caring for one, then the option here is a no-brainer.

I won't deny that evil people have the upper hand, but I for one will not lay down for them. Having a gun may not help in every case, but it will in many, so I will have one in those cases. Dumb, drugged out crazy's will die at my house. If someone I don't know, enters my house uninvited, they will be shot, whether they have a weapon or not. I know that's easier said, but I have conditioned myself along time for that possibility.

It's always been my belief, that your home is your safe place and is not to be trespassed. I reserve the right to kill anyone who crosses that line. A home is sacred.

Well, then I would say that you have down what I see is the most important factor: Mindset. The mindset to be willing to fight it out. That's good so long as it is tempered with preparation and training that takes into account the physical and legal risks of firearms.

To be fair, not everyone agrees with that mindset. And among those who may agree, not everyone is willing to go that far. And there are even those who think they can go that far, but in reality, they are not able to because they are not trained or prepared enough to go that far. (For some reason, many people don't seem to realize that burglaries and home invasions are closer to CQC conditions. Static target shooting on paper at the local range is a fine start, but it's not adequate in my personal opinion.) For these people, they are better off seeking alternative strategies. But I don't see anything wrong with that.

In self-defense, there isn't a one-size-fits-all strategy. What will work for us will not work for others, and vice versa.

I've been told by several LEOs to get one. They told me to take classes so that I would be mentally prepared for every possible situation. They've told me they know of countless incidents where the assailant was thwarted because the potential victim had a gun. However, the key was the victim knew what they were going to do before the event occurred. I'm sure when this happens you get tunnel vision and only have seconds to make a decision. The whole idea is that getting a gun and firing it should just be a programmed response. Pretty scary stuff IMO.

Yeah, now you're getting it! Er, I would say that even LEOs don't always give the *cough* best advice.... But I was also a cop once so... for what that's worth. The best rule of thumb is to simply get a dog. Big one and well-trained if that makes you feel better. Firearms are optional, but you gotta know what you're getting yourself into, and how far you're willing to go.

Even if you are in the legal right for self-defense, potentially maiming or killing another human being is no laughing matter. Not everyone wants to go that far. That and I once read that the average court cost of clearing yourself in a lawsuit-- even when you are in the legal right!-- is about 20k. If you're OK with those potential risks, then come on in!

But like I said, if you do decide to come in, please do so with your eyes wide open, and not with any delusions as the next John Rambo.

Someone with a long driveway posted a sign about half-way up the drive "Warning: You are now in range." It had a picture of a rifle or a pistol (can't remember) on it. I thought it was great!

Haha! I used to put up my own signs that read, "Will shoot for food and sport." And it included an image of my rifle that rested on a paper target that included my shot group.

But that was a long time ago, and I was much younger and dumber then. Never had a burglary incident though!

[disneysteve]

It's always been my belief, that your home is your safe place and is not to be trespassed. I reserve the right to kill anyone who crosses that line. A home is sacred.

I hear stories in the news about once a month of intruders meeting their timely demise by armed homeowners.

Just to be clear, I am not opposed to personal gun ownership and I am absolutely not opposed to using deadly force to protect yourself, your family and your property. I think we are way too soft on criminals in this country and create no deterrent to committing crimes. People have the mindset that they will most likely get away with it or get a slap on the wrist. Being greeted by the barrel of a gun might not be such a bad deterrent.

The flipside, though, is that it might encourage more criminals to arm themselves and that will just escalate the violence and increase the innocent victim and bystander shootings.

gackle, just as you hear frequent stories of intruders being shot by armed homeowners, I hear frequent stories of accidental shootings by adults who were shot while cleaning a weapon or who mistook a family member as an intruder (while that adrenaline was pumping) or by children who somehow got a hold of their parents' gun. Just last month, a local police officer shot himself at home while cleaning his gun, and that is a individual who one would presume was well-trained in handling a weapon (though sometimes those who consider themselves well-trained are more likely to get sloppy).

It is a complicated issue. As BA has said, there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

[zakity]

Well, I don't think a lot of the cops or "well trained individuals" who shoot themselves while they are cleaning their gun.

When cleaning a weapon, the first thing you do is to empty the weapon. And then, you double check that it is empty.

As a rule of thumb, you always assume a weapon is loaded (even if you just unloaded it) unless it is in pieces.

[maat55]

Just to be clear, I am not opposed to personal gun ownership and I am absolutely not opposed to using deadly force to protect yourself, your family and your property. I think we are way too soft on criminals in this country and create no deterrent to committing crimes. People have the mindset that they will most likely get away with it or get a slap on the wrist. Being greeted by the barrel of a gun might not be such a bad deterrent.

The flipside, though, is that it might encourage more criminals to arm themselves and that will just escalate the violence and increase the innocent victim and bystander shootings.

gackle, just as you hear frequent stories of intruders being shot by armed homeowners, I hear frequent stories of accidental shootings by adults who were shot while cleaning a weapon or who mistook a family member as an intruder (while that adrenaline was pumping) or by children who somehow got a hold of their parents' gun. Just last month, a local police officer shot himself at home while cleaning his gun, and that is a individual who one would presume was well-trained in handling a weapon (though sometimes those who consider themselves well-trained are more likely to get sloppy).

It is a complicated issue. As BA has said, there is no one-size-fits-all answer.

I have a huge respect for guns, just as I do for power tools. All can hurt you if not used properly.

As for armed homeowners escalating armed intruders, I assume anyone crazy enough to enter a home, especially at night, when people are their, is armed and capable of doing maximum damage. I will not hope, that he will let me live.

Just like with airplane hijacks, you have to assume the worst and fight back.

[gackle]

Steve, I agree with almost everything you post, but I guess on this subject we're going to have to disagree. I totally agree with zakity and maat55's last posts. With your examples, in the end it comes down to responsibility. The cops didn't make sure the weapon was unloaded and didn't treat it as if it was loaded. The family that their kids got a hold of the weapons didn't take the steps necessary to make sure that didn't happen. Another responsibility of having a gun in the house, in my opinion, is that when the kids in the house are old enough they need to be taught about gun safety and responsibility. But your right, there is no one-size-fits-all answer. This is a free country and unfortunately some people, good and bad, who shouldn't own firearms get ahold of them.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Nope Broken Arrow, my older dog is basically deaf and dumb to the world at night. And the younger a coward too afraid to bark. They're just body heat at night.

But seriously I've lived with big dogs on my bed and once a person was tapping on my window at home (1-story home), I only had a beagle sleeping with me. But when the person heard the a very large dog (Doberman) come running and barking I heard tires squealing. She was over 100 lbs and slept in the house with my mom. And my mom came running with a gun! She grew up with guns, my grandfather always had a shotgun, not that he needed it with the dogs around the house. You'd basically have to be dumb and stupid to enter the yard without one of the family there to say it's okay.

I might learn to use a gun one day. My DH isn't fond of the idea and I don't think we'll ever get to that point unless we're burglarized. But if we were I don't doubt we'd have a large dog the next day that was properly trained.

FWIW, my cousin works in the police canine unit. Those are some very tough dogs.

[AmbitiousSaver]

LivingAlmostLarge, we're the same way... we have a puny sheltie who is afraid of his shadow. Another deterrent could just be to put "Beware of Dog" signs up... we'd do it here but everyone knows we have a funny sheltie... it'd just be humorous and our alarm system is LOUD