Please read and comment: I feel overwhelmed

[Scanner]

herm. . .

Thanks for the kind compliment but I am not a lawyer so I wanted to disclose that. But I have a lot of higher education so that sort of makes me an insider but sort of not.

[GRITSinMS]

Are there any Dave Ramsey listeners out there? Two of the major points I constantly hear on the show are 1. Ditch the expensive car - get rid of those high notes 2. Don't go into debt any further - not even for education. Those student loans are like having a ball and chain around your neck. As a previous post indicated - do be glad you are only 27 and have plenty of time to focus on meeting your goal - unlike some of us in the older group! You might want to familiarize yourself with Dave Ramsey's "baby steps", realize you can take it one small step at a time and don't feel overwhelmed. You can reach your goal. It may take some sacrifice, but you can do it.

[cschin4]

There is nothing wrong with changing careers. And, really, nobody can tell you if you should or shouldn't. But, many times, people go to school and then get out into the "real world" and find that the job they trained for isn't all that it is cracked up to be. But, in reality, nothing is. Sometimes you just need to stick with what you have. And, instead, look for another job with the degree and experience you have. And, the older you are when you go to school, the longer it takes to "recover" from the years of lost wages that you could have earned and the years of lost experience. When you start a new career, you often still have to start at entry level, despite your other experiences.
You are making a very good salary now with a chance to continue on in what you are doing and make an even higher salary. So, if you really want to "get ahead" you should consider staying on course. However, if your heart is not in it and you don't think your life would be full unless you became a lawyer, then consider that as well. But, realize it may or may not pan out financially as you hope.

[My English Castle]

never one to discourage education

But as someone who left a much more lucrative career to get a PhD and teach, I think you need to talk to someone who has followed a similar career path.
Most doctoral programs are fairly demanding, and finishing a dissertation usually means you don't do much else for several years.

Someone who has problems managing money should think twice about all that education. I've seen too many stagger under the weight of educational debt and the pretty modest salary offered by most universities.

Would you want to teach a law-related subject that wouldn't require a PhD?

Plus the pressure to maintain the lifestyle you're used to can make it all seem worse.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I'd like to teach after my doctorate. Just FYI it pays crapola!

[InDebtInDC]

Thanks for all the comments. I asked for it so I get what's coming.

As for my background, I have about 5 years of experience. The reason I want to get a JD is as follows:

1) I've spoken with a lot of senior managers (more than 2 dozens or so with at least 15-20 years of experience) at my work and I asked them what their biggest regret in their career was. Other than the basic stuff like get your work done, get your promotions on time, etc., the unanimous answer was that they wish they had gone to law school.

So fast forward 20-30 years into the future, my income is pretty much capped at what it is right now. Maybe it'll go up another 10-15% or so, but not much. That's how much my manager gets paid. It's not until you get into executive management that it starts getting better, but upper management is very competitive and everybody is knifing their best friend in the back to get there.

The ratio of middle managers to junior employees is about 1:15. The ratio of senior managers to middle manager is about 1:100. You can see that it gets really hard to become anything more than a middle manager.


2) My team, including my boss, does the same type and amount of work. To some extent, I do more work than the senior employees because I'm also an administrative manager on top of what everybody else does. I know what each person on the team does and I know about half of what they know, but in the end we all do the same work.

I bill about $60-70 per hour. My co-worker with an MBA who work with me on the same level bills $125. My friend who has a law degree bills $175. We all work together and we all do the same thing.

The get the premium because they have an advanced degree and the clients are willing to pay for that. Most of the work falls on the junior employees who have far superior technical skills, but don't have the experience or degree.


3) I do legal consulting, and although I don't hold a degree I have trained many law school grads. I feel that they don't know any more than I do, but they get paid more because they have a piece of paper.

To me it's just a piece of paper that will double or triple my earnings. I'm not expecting LA Law because I'm already in the industry, and I know it's just a scam to make money to some extent.

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As for teaching, I was referring to my retirement. Ideally, I'd like to retire in my 50s and teach. I've worked with a lot of PhD candidates in my undergrad and I know they all go nuts for low pay.

Ideally I would like to teach women's study and strategic management. I seem to have a knack for this area. I've always wanted the business schools to be more aware of the plight of women and women to be more aware of the various business practices.


Meanwhile, I've calculated my budget and have devised a plan to be completely out of debt in 5 years. After that there shouldn't be anything holding me back from going back to school if I choose.

[InDebtInDC]

Let's talk buget for a minute. Let's say on an average month I gross $10,000. Retirement contributions average $1,500 per month. Mandatory deductions run roughly 30% = $6,000 take home.

Housing is about $2k, but that's how it is around here. I live 2 blocks from work, and could be there within 5 minutes of notice any time of the day. I don't own because I don't know how long I will stay in this area.

I could move out 30 minutes and pay $1500, or another 30 minutes and pay $1000, but if you added up parking, gas, maintenance, and billable hours lost to commuting you end up breaking even (1 hour commuting per day = 20 hours of lost billable hours per month = roughly $1200 before tax income lost to commuting). Not to mention the hassle of driving in heavy traffic.

So I have $4000 left. I have 2 car payments: 1 for myself and 1 for my mom. I'm helping her start out her real estate business so when she picks up more work she'll be good on her own. Both our cars run about $1000 per month right now.

On top of that I pick up some of my mom's household expenses and insurance for another $500.

$2500 left and they all go towards insurance, student loans, credit cards, cell phone, gas, etc. It sounds like a lot but I'll be lucky if I come out with $500 each month.

I don't go out at all and I don't shop. The only times I go out is with clients and they're billed as business expenses.

Right now the only stressing me out is how to come up with enough money to fix my old car and sell it. It needs an engine for about $5000. I anticipate I can sell it for about $15000-$18000 fixed, or about $2-3000 as is. My credit is pretty much tapped out and I don't want to open up any new debt. After that ordeal is gone I wash my hands in it and won't do dumb stuff like that any more.

On top of that, I just need a thousand or two to get rid of an economy car lease that I got before I moved.

Other than that, the only major expenditure I have will be income tax, mostly because I don't know how much I owe since I don't own a home any more. I think it'll be roughly another few thousands or so.


I think if I can get those 3 things taken care of I'll be set for next year. If I don't have them hanging over me, I'll have over $1000 of disposable income per month that can be applied to debt after making the minimum payments.

If I can keep that up for 5 years I'll be completely out of debt and have $100k in my retirement. I'm already maxed out for overtime so I don't think my income will come up any.


As a small first step, I cut over $300 of monthly expenses by getting rid of 2Internet wireless cards and an extra parking space. These were necessary before but are no longer useful where I am now.

[dreamweaver]

Your 27. How lucky to be only 27 and taking charge. That is all you are doing. I hope you enjoyed your lifestyle. And I hope you enjoy the new one, also. You can, you know. Anybody who makes more than 100,000 a year is blessed with all the tools to do it right. As far as your education...learn away. Just don't assume that you have to rack up a bunch more debt to finish law school. You need to go talk to a counselor and find out about getting your credits in the cheapest way possible...be it online, or nightschool. You don't have to assume you need to quit your job and go farther into debt because you want to do this. Yea, I know. It seems to be the trend. But it doesn't have to be.