Just needed to vent ...

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My wife beleives in spoiling our children.

She says that she wants them to someday look back and sort of realize all the things they take for granted and have that epiphany. I think she truly beleives too, the more they have, the farther they will go.

I'll admit I don't quite get it either, if it is a "mother/son" thing but sometimes they can be quite the knuckleheads because of it. I do see other mothers have that sort of relationship with boys.

It's hard being the mean parent.

My son is 9 years old and his mother still helps him put his socks on.

[PrincessPerky]

Oh my, some spoiling is good, but socks on for a 9 year old?

I wont put my one year olds socks on, that is what the 3 year old is for!

(kidding, sometimes, sorta, depends on what needs done, and I can't do it all...)

[disneysteve]

She says that she wants them to someday look back and sort of realize all the things they take for granted

Unfortunately, I don't think it works that way most of the time. Kids that grow up spoiled just become spoiled adults with an overly inflated sense of entitlement. I don't think that epiphany ever comes. They just keep taking everything for granted. Once they head out on their own, they often struggle to keep up the same standard of living and end up living beyond their means to do so.

Personally, I think the "mean" parent is the one who doesn't set any limits and lets their kids do and have anything and everything.

No offense intended to your wife.

[MonkeyMama]

All the more reason to have kids, so you can add some sanity to the world.

I just had to add that I was watching Montel Williams yesterday - vegging on my day off - and they had a segment on spoiled kids. The parents on this particular show were mind boggling. "Oh, well my other kids never put up such a fuss when I said no, but this one does so we give her everything she wants." In every case the parents wanted help and everyone else is like - duh - just say no.

Of course the first case was a 5yo girl who the parent had no control over what she wears. Dh and I just looked at each other. ???? I am not really sure how our 4yo is going to go behind our back and get a bunch of clothes we can't afford to buy him. Stuff like that is just mind boggling to me. If you can't control a 5yo, then, yeesh, I hate to think how you are going to raise a teen in this world.

I guess I can't see buying a $50 dinner for my kid and then complain about it. I'd just say we can't afford it, mommy and daddy are skipping it too. Or if it was a special occassion and you want to say yes, sure, but don't complain about it. Gosh, I just don't get people.

[Scanner]

The funny thing is I think it really is a mother-son thing because we have talked if we had a girl, how liberal would she be and she admits she'd be tougher on the girl.

We'll be at a school function where some girls are showing off dancing or something (strutting) and she'll get so annoyed.

It seems boys can be indulged but not girls.

I think I read a book on this once. . .I seem to recall the author saying all women want to raise their boys to be different - that they sort of nuture this fantasy they'll be gentlemen, well-dressed, not brutes. . .not like the other guys they knew who were lunkheads in school and so they spoil them.

And then puberty hits and they scratch themselves and the hormones make them into, well, guys and the fantasy is destroyed almost overnight. The little boy they loved becomes a guy and they realize it was a fantasy all along.

Then Dad has to be called in to clean up the mess.

[Ima saver]

I have never had a $50 meal in my life! I sure would not pay that for a kid! I also don't believe all kids need cell phones either. My child would NOT have one unless she had a job to pay for it .

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Some sort of smug version of myself actually enjoys hearing these sorts of stories. Sad but true.

The spoiled, entitled attitude shows in a million very small ways, too. I remember one friend of my son would ask,"What's for snacks?" every time he visited. He also felt quite free to just go to our refrigerator and open it to survey what the possibilities were. This was a seven year old boy. I had to be entirely explicit in telling him not to do that. I do offer hospitality, but I think it bad manners to invade another's refrigerator like that. Of course, I had later had a little discussion or two with my own son about manners in another's household. If this was the norm among his friends, I wanted him to know that he was going to be the exception. Actually, at the time he told me he would never go into another family's fridge and he did not like it that his friend did it at our house either.

Then there was the way kids at a birthday party destroyed the little favors (Hotwheels) they were given, throwing them off the balcony into the street below to see how many of them could get run over. This did not seem to bother the parents who had provided them.... And at many BD parties I will see kids open can after can of soda pop, not keeping up with which can was their own, so just going for a new one every few minutes. They gripe over the idea of having their names written on a paper cup to track their own drink---the way it was done when I was a kid, and the way it was done at kids' parties in my home.

A teacher told me that is is common in her classroom that if a student makes a mistake on a paper, they just wad up the paper and start a new one, rather than just erasing or crossing out the error. She said pencils are given to the students and deliberately broken for the fun of it as soon as they are finished using it. I know these aren't end-of-the-world issues, but they are just small symptoms of the unthinkingness and the self-centeredness that I think we are supposed to coach our kids away from, not condone and re-inforce.

I see kids who are not made to even bring their belongings indoors to protect them from theft and weathering. The attitude is that we can always just get another. Kids who get a new bike every year. Kids who leave their sports gear at the park and are just bought brand new to replace it, time and time again. Preschool and elementary kids who are not put to bed, but allowed to crash where ever their tired minds and bodies finally give in, sometimes hours after parents have gone to sleep--with parents who believe that this is the kinder way to respect their child's growth into an autonomous person....But I especially can't stand it when parents act as if they are powerless before their own kids!

However, it is not all kids or all families who act this way, by any means. And you know what? This is for DisneySteve, especially: Helping the host child to clean up messes as you go along through the visit is something I learned from another parent. One day I was suprised when a visiting parent said, "Jerry, [her kid] you need to help Sam [my kid] pick up those Legos before you go outside." Ding-Ding! Light bulb moment for me! It never had occurred to me that the visiting child should help put away little messes before going on to the next thing. My kid was three at the time. I really appreciated learning this practice, both so that I would begin teaching that behavior to my child and so that I would even feel free to ask a visiting child to help out. No doubt my kid helped make but not clean up some messes when he played at others' homes before that day, even when I was there and should have thought of it! I was ashamed to realize my own previous rudeness but, believe me, I immediately added help-clean-up-at-other's-homes to my bag of parenting projects.

And, oh, has my son had some well-mannered, considerate, unselfish, kind friends over the years! He has had friends who I was so glad he was hanging out with because they are such grounded, self-confident, polite, interesting, well-balanced, happy people. I hoped a little of these kids would rub off on mine. They have fantasic parents.

[allbadgirl]

I was a young mom, so some of my friends are parents of younger children, while mine is now grown. I hear this kind of mess all the time and can't imagine not saying NO. I may have been one of those "mean" moms, but I couldn't do it and would not allow it. Special occasion or not, $50 is still sounding pricey to me now!! I guess I look at how much I can cook a meal for and think I'm not paying that price!!

[PharmacistRealtor]

commendation...

It takes a lot of courage to make a judgement (about her spending habits) and not pass a judgement (tell your friend she's wrong) ... I think happiness comes from comparing ourselves to our own progress and not to the progress of others...I would have looked at it as she's excited she can do something special for him and cares enough to spend $50 on him and not herself...just how I would have seen it...

[disneysteve]

I would have looked at it as she's excited she can do something special for him and cares enough to spend $50 on him

But she wasn't excited. She was complaining about it.

I think people are free to spend their money however they choose, but don't buy something and then complain about how expensive it was. If you thought it was too expensive, what did you buy it for? Because you couldn't say no to your kid? What kind of lesson does that teach them?

[jmjj215]

But she wasn't excited. She was complaining about it.

I think people are free to spend their money however they choose, but don't buy something and then complain about how expensive it was. If you thought it was too expensive, what did you buy it for? Because you couldn't say no to your kid? What kind of lesson does that teach them?

That's a good point Steve.

[PrincessPerky]

You know what annoys me? when people tell me not to have my kids clean up..now it isn't about you, the clean up is about our kid practicing the right thing...

Same with 'mrs so and so' asking to be called so and so, nope, that isn't your choice, my kids have to treat all adults with a certain measure of respect, I don't mind using your first name with the mr/mrs, but we have to have that 'honorific' to give you a certain amount of honor/respect.

And...yes my kid has to ask me before they eat junk, you can't just give it to them, not even a piece of birthday cake...sorry, I get veto power till I see more of my kid vetoing it by himself (and yes my 5 year old is starting to portion out junk himself, adorable .)

[pearlieq]

and cares enough to spend $50 on him

Money is neither love nor caring.

[thekid]

At least were I live, I think the lack of discipline and responsibility given to children is becoming a grave social problem.

My gf is an elementary school teacher. In just the 6 years she has been teaching, she has noticed a severe decrease in discipline and maturity in her students. Hard work (or really just plain work or effort) is frowned upon by both students and parents. Discipline is even worse. A teacher often disciplines a student at the risk of having to justify themselves to overprotective parents and principals to whom the parents have complained that their little treasure is being treated so unfairly for not receiving such and such. In some case it is really bad. Some parents will go on irrational, unrelenting crusades against the school and NEVER even think of acknowledging (even less addressing) the problem with their kids. I think an intelligent, well educated person has to be a saint to want to continue teaching to spoiled, lazy brats for a mediocre salary.

The general societal guidelines also seem to be geared this way. It is virtually impossible to fail a student in elementary school. For a time, set grades weren't even handed out. It is not possible to seperate good students from bad students in different classes. Heck, even students with severe learning/behavioural problems are integrated into normal classes dragging down the whole group. It's all very "make the school a happy place for students / don't leave anybody behind no matter what" oriented. The result is a downward spiral in the quality of education and creation of a generation of students to whom effort and discipline are foreign concepts.

A don't consider myself an overly strict person at all. But the free-for-all is ridiculous.

[disneysteve]

thekid - I didn't quote your post but I agree 100%. We see the same problem in DD's school. Her teachers don't even correct students' mistakes on homework and assignments. She has gotten papers back graded and I take a look and find the errors she made that weren't even pointed out by the teacher. The expectations just get lower and lower. I'm very curious and a bit nervous to see what happens when she starts middle school in September.

It has gotten to where the animals are in charge of the zoo. The teachers and administrators are almost powerless for fear of legal action against the school.

As for lumping together the smarter kids with the slower kids, that also benefits nobody. The slow kids are still slow and the smarter kids are bored out of their minds because the teacher has to teach to the level of the slowest kid. My daughter also has 3 kids in her class this year who barely speak English. These kids don't have to do the same assignments and tests as the rest of the class because they can't speak, read and write the language well enough. How is that accomplishing anything for anyone? Take the kids who need extra attention and put them in a special class where they can receive the help they need. And take the kids who are more advanced and allow them to work at their own level. Instead, we punish everyone. We don't give the slow kids the help they need and we hold back the kids who could be doing so much more if we gave them a chance.