Who are "those people"?

[Ima saver]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Poor choices are certainly what they are making. I worked for a short time at a nation wide loan company, General Finance. Those folks had loans that they could not pay, but drove new cadillacs!! No you can't tell who is rich and who is poor!

[lrjohnson]

Re: Who are "those people"?

A phone period is a luxury..!

I know this is a bit tangential to the discussion....but there is one case in which I see a cell phone as "necessary": That's for a homeless person seeking work. Once you lose an address and phone number, you are off the map. I would agree that it had better be the lowest price plan, only used for job seeking. But it can be a tool for those working to improve their life. I don't have a cell phone, I'm not all about teens having cells....it's just something I've realized working with people seeking work. (Even once you have a position, some jobs it really helps to have a phone: starting working low hours in retail/restaurant but always being available to come in for an extra shift if you get a call, temp agencies needing to call you first thing in the morning about an assignment.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I'm glad you spoke up, Lisa. Glad to have you on this forum and in this thread.

I'd agree that it's certainly not only impoverished people who take advantage of the sytem. Folks making high incomes can declare bankruptcy; this results in higher consumer prices for all of us. And it's true that those not paying their full share of taxes may be "taking" much more money than a person on cash aid or food stamps gets. Totally outside of public assistance, I've known people in "the real world" and who post in these threads who have debt and live much more luxuriously than I do. In a cynical person's eyes cable means more to them than paying debt.

But I'd rather not be cycnical right now....I'd rather have compassion for my fellow folks. No one has walked in my shoes, and I have not walked in theirs. I make mistakes in my life, and know that I am a flawed human. I would very much rather not be judged, as I may be found wanting. And if I'm in a mood to demand more, I can certainly direct that toward myself.

[scrava]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I think that taking from the system when you need it is ok. For a short time.
A short time would be different for different needs. Chronic reliance is what I think makes you one of "those people". IMHO

[greedy4chips]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Lisa, you are the person that public assistance was made for. You used it to make it thru the tough times.

"Those people" refer to those who manipulate the system to their benefit. They know exactly what they can make before they begin to lose a portion of their assistance. They milk the system for everything they can. They lack the incentive to get off the system for one simple reason, the extra amount of income needed to overcome the loss of assistance is not worth the effort of earning. They begin to feel entitled to it rather than a helping hand.

I can safely say the above comments, since I know many people including family members who 'milk' the system. My SIL's plan was to sell her house and move into a rental owned by her mother so she could collect renter's assistance. This plan was shared/explained by one of her friends who is also milking the system.

I have 3 stepsisters who spent many years on assistance, but smoke cigs like they are life supporting products, play in bowling, pool, and softball leagues, go out to bars, order pizzas, own cell phones, cable tv, buy lottery tickets, etc. They borrowed money from my step mother constantly...drove my father nuts that they never earned a dime of it!

This topic of 'those people' drives me nuts! I think it is because we live in Wisconsin and you can drive around here and see "Now Hiring" signs all around town at some decent paying jobs. Now I would not consider many of these as lifelong jobs, but rather get me thru the tough times jobs.

I have no sympathy for anyone who cannot work out an arrangement with their friends to babysit each other's kids while they get a job. It won't make you rich, but at least you gain experience and self worth (that I see lacking in my step sisters and SIL). What is even worse is when you have married couples on assistance when both are capable of working! Please explain to me why both cannot work a minimum 50 hrs per wk. My gosh people! How many millionaires work 30 hrs/ wk? How many self made rich people sit at home collecting assistance checks?

I agree many times people are thrust into situations that seem insurmountable. Christopher Reeve is paralized when he falls off his horse. Did he let that destroy him? Physically it did, but mentally he was an inspiration to us all! If he can get out of bed every morning and campaign for medical advancements, I think people on assistance can find a job cleaning hotel rooms, homes, businesses, deliver pizza, work at McDonalds (or any other fast food place), etc. None will make you rich, but they do put food on the table.

A good friend of mine who does foster care for many of 'those people' type families sees how the system is milked and how they understand what needs to be done to keep the assistance coming.

His famous quote, "Even birds will find food if you quit feeding them in the winter", explains most of it for me. As long as you feed birds they will eat and be back until you stop. They continue to let their friends know where the food is. Ever ask a person on assistance what would happen if they lost a portion of their assistance or all of it? They freak out and will essentially tell you they are entitled to it.

My plan would be to give assistance as more of a subsidized work program. You work, you get a check. You don't work and you don't get a check. Each community will have govt run daycares where some people who require assistance will work taking care of other assistance family's kids while the parent(s) work. No more free checks, food stamps, etc. No more EIC or any other income tax refund, jokes. Refunds are for those who pay taxes not those who make too little income.

I have worked weeks in excess of 90 hrs for years to get where I am financially. Am I rich? Not even close! Have I missed my kids precious moments? Unfortunately too many! What seperates me from 'those people'? Surely not education. Work ethic and pride!!! I have worked jobs that would make people's hands bleed, I worked jobs no one here would ever do, I worked jobs I am embarrassed to say to friends, but I worked!

When our life came crashing down 2 1/2 yrs ago due to my back surgery and inability to return to work, did we collapse financially? Nope! My wife went to work delivering pizzas (Dave Ramsey favorite extra income generator) as soon as I could get around the house and take care of our 2, 4, and 5 yr olds. Eventually she got a job at an insurance company in customer service making $13+/hr, but most of all we had health insurance. After a few months my wife went to her current career of a county jailor. I am not proud nor is she to tell people she works in a jail with the scum bags of the earth. But at $16+/ hr and benefits we are doing better than we ever have financially, including my long term disability insurance, and website earnings. We now put away $2500 per month. 4 yrs ago we had no less than $70,000 in debts. We never kept track since I was earning $78k per year and thought it would last another several years until my chosen quitting time at age 40!

I go to school with single mothers and do all I can to help each one of them out. I do this because they are trying to better themselves. They could easily live off the system, but choose not to.

What does all this lead to? Winners win and quitters quit. Find a solution and don't take no for an answer! Life is going to deal you some blows financially and medically. Suck it up and take a little pride in yourself. Make a plan and seek help from those who are successful. This does not mean calling Bill Gates, it just means finding a mentor who can show you the ropes and help you avoid the same mistakes.

I am not a religious person, but I surely love the footprints in the sand artwork. My view of these footprints, is like a person deciding on which way to walk thru a minefield and will you choose to follow the set that makes it thru successfully or do you choose your own path. What happens on your path is either success or failure, but it was your choice. Some are going to make it thru the minefield unscathed while others will falter somewhere along their journey. It must be scary to not walk in the footprints of successful people. It can also be rewarding to do it on your own.

I chose the path of hard work will pay your bills and if not you either have to increase your pay or reduce your expenditures. I am not entitled to a free pass thru life and excuses will never get you ahead in life!

Lisa you are not one of "those people"! I wish you all the success you desire! I will also be there to help in anyway I can!

[disneysteve]

Re: Who are "those people"?

greedy4chips - Excellent post! Great story of what people should be doing - fending for themselves whenever and however they can.

[creditcardfree]

Re: Who are "those people"?

My plan would be to give assistance as more of a subsidized work program. You work, you get a check. You don't work and you don't get a check. Each community will have govt run daycares where some people who require assistance will work taking care of other assistance family's kids while the parent(s) work. No more free checks, food stamps, etc. No more EIC or any other income tax refund, jokes. Refunds are for those who pay taxes not those who make too little income.

That is an awesome plan! LOVE IT!!

We're teaching our girls right now about working and getting paid for that work. Paydays are even on Fridays for them.

Re: Who are "those people"?

Great post! We definitely need to teach our children about hard work, dedication and integrity. I hope I am doing a good job of that myself.

As far as the cell phone discussion goes, I know of some people who use them and have no land line. We live in a rural area and they built a new farmhouse on a ranch. The phone company wanted $30,000 to put a land line to their house!! They opted for the cell phones.

[Faeanne]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I disagree with this statement:

A phone period is a luxury..you will not die wihout it, and in the case of an emergency at home you are more likely to ask you neighbor to call than use your own anyway!

I believe a phone is a necissity. (Sp?) Especially if you have children. If something was to happen to me I've taught my kids to call 911. Plus if one of my children was ever hurt there would be no way in h*ll that I would leave them to run across the street to the neighbors house. All of our neighbors are not normally home anyways. The "additions" to a basic line are a luxury- caller id, long distance & such.

I do think that "those people" are the exception, not the rule. It's like the fact that "bad news" travel faster than "good news". We are more likely to hear about the people that are abusing the system than the ones that generally need it and respect it. If someone is using it right than it's not as an interesting tale as the one about the lady (who was getting a large amount of food stamps) that moved across the state line from MI to IN, started working and got married, but never told the State of Michigan about it. (Yes I knew a "friend" that did that.)

Now on that fact- let me tell you about myself. I have an EBT card- which is essentially a debit card version of food stamps. I don't work- I'm a SAHM to three boys. We have cable- basic for $12 a month, we have a landline w/ long distance, we have a cell phone- a prepaid for emergencies only, we have DSL and we have a 2002 Chevy 4-door truck.

But I don't "milk the system" I don't receive any cash money, nor do I want it. My DH works FT & OT when he can. I babysit out of my home. I am constantly trying to find ways to save money. I research & change my services (such as phone) to get the cheapest deal. I use coupons & stockpile. I'm currently devising ways to make more income from home. Are there things that we could do to cut expenses out of our budget? Sure. Would those changes save us enough to buy food for a family of 5 every month? No. Do I plan on getting help for the rest of my life? No. Am I working towards the goal of being able to pay all bills (including food) without any help? Yes.

Depending on your POV- I could be considedered "One of Those People". I'm actually interested in hearing whether other people think I am or not.

[tabbycat31]

Re: Who are "those people"?

my uncle has 3 kids and no landline. HIs stepdaughter (12) has a cellphone (prepaid) and knows what to do in an emergency. And his other daughters (5,6) know more about cellphones than I do.

I am on the road a lot and rarely home. It makes no sense for me (it could be different in your situation being that you are home all the time) to use my cellphone as my primary phone. Plus it comes with extras like caller id, voicemail, long distance, free calls on nights and weekends, etc. And people know that they can always reach me.

I think *A* phone is necessary in this day and age. However whether it be a cell or landline all depends on your personal situation. I don't think both are necessary.

[dshep]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I have to pipe in here, due to the fact I work for a church who raises money to help people and also distribute Salvationy Army funds, and see who goes in and out of our food pantry weekly. In my town, there are those who use the system big time.. always calling for a food voucher each week, or needing their electric bill paid the day before it gets shut off, ect ect. For a long time there were quite a few people who would use the system, go from church to church, getting all thier bills paid every month! Now they need to sign a waiver stating we can call the other churches to see if they have gotten help. Also now the second time they need help, they have to agree to have a retired financial planner who helps out at the church, help them set up a budget and help them stick to it for at least 4 months. We weeded alot of people out this way. Also, if I have paid your electric bill and I end up in line behind you at the grocery store and you are buying liquor or prime rib ( you get the picture) I wont help again, unless its a medical emergency and I get a call from the Drs office. We have one family in town on all kinds of asstistance.. and claim they cant find jobs.. anyway.. when one of thier kids gets sick.. the Dr. calls the school nurse to let her know that there is a prescription at Riteaid for the child, she calls me, I pay for it and bring it to the school, she administers the prescription, because the parents, who both drive brand new cars, dont work, but can drink and smoke, cant afford the prescriptions... its a wonder after ten years of doing this kind of work, I am not in jail for murder!
Anyway the major point to this rambling...is the sad thing is this way of life, abusing the system, is passed on from generation to generation, I have watched kids grow up, have kids at 17 or 18 and go right on the system, just like their parents did before them.
And what really irks me, is we have familys we hear about who really do need help, dad fell off a roof, or a medical emergency, or there was a fire in the house ect.. and they are to proud to ask for help. We do for those familys big time, send grocery cards or walmart cards anonomously or have oiled delivered to the house in the middle of winter. Or I will go to Riteaid and set up an acct in their name and put a big chunk of money on it, so their prescriptions are paid for.
OK.. I am getting off my soap box now!

[dshep]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Me agian.. and I promise to keep this short! Up here in Maine, even if you have no landline service, if you have a phone plugged into a jack, you can still call 911.

[Snoopy2645]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Well in the last few weeks I have donated alot of food to my church cereals & snack mixes & other things baby wipes & napkins I trust the church to do the right thing with this BTW I got all of this stuff free with coupons & stuff. ANyways my point is I love to donate but I love to give to places who can give to the people who need it that way I cant see the people & think well gees they could get a job. I also hope if the day ever came that I really needed something they would be thier for me. I believe what goes around comes around

[melissalt]

Re: Who are "those people"?

...is the sad thing is this way of life, abusing the system, is passed on from generation to generation, I have watched kids grow up, have kids at 17 or 18 and go right on the system, just like their parents did before them.

This is exactly why we need to offer education to "those people" in the areas of budgeting, interpersonal relations (so they can keep their jobs), and other life skills to enable them to become self sufficient. I would think it would be much less costly in the long run, especially since they will be much better examples to their kids than the people who know only how to rely on the system to survive.

[Ima saver]

Re: Who are "those people"?

dshep, I think what you have to say, is very interesting. I am glad your church checks with all the other churches. I use to work at the water dept. and we had a local church that paid a lot of people's water bills. One couple, was in their mid 30's and neither one of them worked, although he could have made good money as a brick mason. They spent most of their money on liquor and fast food. We refused to let the church pay their water bill after the first few times.