Who are "those people"?

[DivaJen]

I just have to ask - how many people here know that many people who are taking advantage of the system, getting something for nothing, lazy, more interested in handouts than working, etc?

Generalizations get tossed about on these forums and elsewhere about "these people" but I'm wondering how many of us see that as the rule and not the exception when it comes to people we encounter in a meaningful way that are poor, or less fortunate. I don't mean the person in front of us at the grocery store whose situation we don't know. I mean people we know - we know where they live, where they work (if they do), their siatuation with regards to children and/or a partner, and so forth.

If you have these kinds of people in your life, are they the rule? The exception? Do you know enough of "those people" to say one way or the other?

I honestly don't know anyone like that. The poor students I have had come from working one and two parent families.

[EikoU]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I know a couple of "those people". Some are close friends of the family and some are just acquaintances. They are all able bodied people on welfare and section 8. They work off the books for money and pay close to nothing for rent. I understand why they do it but some people don't see it the same way as I do since I've grown up in the "ghetto" and am still here.

[Snoopy2645]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I personally am close to 2 people like that the only thing that irks me about is they live MUCH better than dh & I & they are both pros at working the system & I have been friends with them each for over 5yrs & the entire time they have been working the system. It just to me dont seem right I had a dd at 18 & worked ft & went to school & bought my trailer & paid my own way never got any help so its kinda sickening some people just take advantage of the system. My beliefs are you had the kids get a job & support them I did it so I know anyone can!!!

[jacquelynrose]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Yes, these people do exist. My Best Friend filed Bankruptcy and before she did her & her husband purchased a HUGE Screen TV, Car, Entertainment System and filed just in time to not have that stuff removed from their presence. This person also threatened to sue her husband for everything he has including Child Support & Alimony if they ever divorced. So yes, these people do exist. She also told me this information in person.

[DivaJen]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I'm not questioning whether or not they exist or looking for anecdotes of the one or two people members might know. I'd like to go deeper than that - are these people the rule or the exception? Of all the poor people one might know, or of all the people one might know receiving assistance, are the majority of them what I am calling, in quotes "those people"?

I know of a group of people my church has helped who are getting land from the city on which to set up their tents. They all work and are all required to contribute a certain amount of money each month to the tent community. So yes, they are receiving a handout of sorts (land, assistance from the church) but they are working, too.

I don't know of any friends or famliy currently receiving assitance that I can think of.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Being in the business, I see "those people" everyday. Most of "those people" are "us people." Few are purely taking advantage of the system. In my off the job life, I can't think of any of the people continually referred to as "those people" in derisive tones. I'm sure a fair number of people I know are getting medical assistance due to the lack of affordable health care. All of them would prefer regular insurance, but with preexisting conditions the costs are beyind prohibitive.

(With clients, I found it odd that some people would apply for medical assistance and get tens of thousands worth of medical care a year, but somehow look down on people getting "welfare"-a couple hundred bucks a month.)

Statistics bear out that most folks on aid get off within two years.

Gosh knows it's not the easy living some might think it is. A mother with one child can look forward to a maximum of $555 in cash in my County, with a maximum couple hundred in food stamps. That's if she isn't sanctioned for not meeting Welfare to work rules. And California has higher rates than most places. In Missouri (I picked another state at random) the maximum is $292 for one month for a mom and TWO kids. On the "can you live on 5.15 an hour" thread everone said no way. Even with food stamps welfare is a lot less than federal minimum wage.

I think that for most people on aid we see, we don't realize they are on aid. The exception to the rule, the obvious person taking advantage, is noticeable, so people mistakenly think people on aid are like that.

I fret that people on aid come by this site to seek ways to be frugal, and see references to "those people" and run.

[DivaJen]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I was hoping you would weigh in, knowing your line of work, lrjohnson.

Please know that my use of "those people" is in light of comments I've read and not the way I would want to refer to another person, here or IRL.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Who are "those people"?

Please know that my use of "those people" is in light of comments I've read and not the way I would want to refer to another person, here or IRL.

I absolutely trusted that you were quoting and not perpetratin'.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: Who are "those people"?

The trouble is that while many are not totally taking advantage, many are comfortably accepting all the help they can. (IMExperience)

I have a friend who is on miscelaneous forms of medical assistance and such, who does not pay her bills.....I don't get how you can buy pop, dinner out, pizza, AC on at 71..while doors are open to move, and yet still complain that the water was shut off cause you didn't pay!

Now are they 'milking the system'? Not exactly. I do know of some who do, but I find the milkers to be an exception, I find the sheer lack of willingness to work/suffer mildly to be the rule.

I can't..that is the dirtiest phrase I have ever heard...I hate the word. "I can't do this to save money, can't do that, can't do anything..so you are stuck on assistance (of some form or another)...meanwhile I do 100 things every day to save (I do qualify for assistance, of many forms) cause I do not want to need it.....now there are 100 more I have currently decided not to do, and thousands I hav't heard of/havn't figured out yet. In one day I could save my friend over 100 dollars, just by doing the things I no longer think about, but she doesn't want to even start.......to hard.....

This doesn't however leave my thinking that all on assistance are stupid/lazy/insert bad term here, my dad used assistance to get a hearing aid once, my mother used food stamps eons ago (trust me we did not have cable at the time!) But I think in general there is too much acceptance of assistance. And too much of a 'well it is only for a short time, I can keep my cable the govt will pay for food'..........

Of all the people I am close with who are on asistance of one form or another...I would say ALL refuse to do simple things to get off it....None go out of thier way to milk, beyond a couple getting paid under the table.......(not like thousands under the table, just minimum wage under the table......that I know of)

[Ima saver]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I know several that are working the system. One is my own adopted daughter. She married a guy she had know for 2 weeks and he immediately got her on the system. She had 2 kids so she got welfare, food stamps, etc. She has never worked since then. she had 3 more kids, all for free.
I know another woman, about 32, who has never worked in her life and has 2 girls in school. She will work for cash, clean houses, but that is all. She moves all around and lives with anyone that will let her in. She is able bodied and can work, but no one in her family ever worked, so she does not plan to.

[melissalt]

Re: Who are "those people"?

There are people who use the system, no doubt, both rich and poor. I have to admit that poverty is an issue I am passionate about, so it is really difficult for me to avoid going off on a million tangents, but I'll do my best! I have known people who have done all of the things mentioned above, and I have also seen those same people become productive members of society when given the support they need; it doesn't take tons of money or generations of family members to provide it either. We do have a broken system, and learning what I've learned about poverty, I understand why "the system" gets used.

Understanding why the poor use the system doesn't make it any more okay than when the rich use the system, and they surely do. I know just as many wealthy people, in my personal experience, who cheat on their taxes big time -- they get far more than any poor person ever would. One makes about $150K per year, but on taxes is so poor that he couldn't qualify for a loan for his cabin on the lake, so instead he just paid cash. Another, again self-employed and cheating on both taxes AND on an Individual Development Account gets fuel assistance because they just don't want to pay even though they can afford it.

I guess I didn't do too well on refraining from a tangent, but I think I caught myself before I got too carried away and caused too much trouble! At least I hope so . . .

[boefixepa]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I know the welfare system is there for a reason and it needs to be...I have no problem supporting it, nor my churches walfare system, for there are those that truely need it.

However, of all the people I have ever known who use these systems, some personally, I would say more than 3/4 of them are doing it because they are 1.) not willing to work and are more than able 2.) not willing to give up _________ so they need help (this could be a car, cable, eating out...you choose) or 3.) look at aid as a handout they are 'entitled' to.

Many of these types of people are from my own family! I don't understand it and I've given up trying. The ones I know who really need it and use it...they are not on it for long. More power to them! Those are the ones that the system is for, that it was built to help! That's what it is suppose to be like!

I know as a forum, maybe we do bag on 'those people' a bit much, but 'those people' are the extreme opposite of what we are. So in some ways it's natural to look at them and see their faults...human nature rerearing it's head. However, I think we are so passionate about it because it is OUR TAX MONEY being wasted on their lack of caring. I know they sure aren't paying taxes!

I also agree that there are those who have plenty who also cheat the system and I hope what goes around comes around for them too!

[disneysteve]

Re: Are "those people" the rule or exception?

I just have to ask - how many people here know that many people who are taking advantage of the system, getting something for nothing, lazy, more interested in handouts than working, etc?

I know plenty. I am a physician in a poor area. Many of my patients are on public assistance and/or disability for one reason or another, some more justified than others.

Even though many of these folks are getting various forms of public assistance, they don't seem to have any trouble affording cigarettes, lottery tickets, alcohol, etc. They dress well, have nice jewelry and drive decent cars. But they won't hesitate to ask me for a prescription for Tylenol because their insurance will cover it with a prescription.

I'm certainly not speaking of everyone. Many are truly struggling and doing all they can to get by. But I know many who fit this description. I drive a 1998 Toyota that I bought used. One of my disability patients recently bought a brand new Ford F-150. Now where did he come up with that kind of money? And why does a guy who is supposedly totally disabled need an expensive truck?

Almost every single one of my patients, from teens on up to seniors, comes in carrying a cell phone. Sorry, but I still consider a cell phone to be a luxury item, not a necessity of life.

Lots of patients who are on disability still work regularly and get paid under the table so there is no record of it. So they collect disability, get free health care and earn tax-free income from their jobs.

So DivaJen, while you may not know any of "those people," there are plenty out there.

[vsjhoc]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I work in the business with "those people" every day but I think those who abuse the system are the exception, not the rule.

It's pretty easy to sit on your high horse and say "if you're not making enough money, go get a higher paying job or a second job." But did you know that the minute someone in subsidized housing has an income increase, the amount of their rent automatically increases? What incentive is there for people to work more, or encourage others in their households to work, if it puts them further behind?

Other little known facts: if you qualify for foodstamps but have no dependents, you get a maximum of $10 per month. Let's have a $10/month eating challenge.

Why don't we all spend more time and energy trying to help each other on this site (as so many people already do ) rather than criticizing people in whose moccasins we may not have hiked. It's more productive to support others who are motivated to improve their situations than to criticize people who can't, aren't, or won't.

[Ima saver]

Re: Who are "those people"?

I have a friend who is terrible with money. When her husband loses a job ( and has about 75 times) she expects her church to pay for everything and they do. Her rent, her electric, her food, her $200 phone bill, her 2 cell phones, etc.
My long distance phone bill last month was $3 (my fil lives in fla. and is 85) and I have no cell phone. I can not talk her into cutting out "stuff" and saving the money.