marriage question

[AJ444]

I RARELY bring up anything biblical, and almost never do until someone else does. This was a thread asking a loaded question. Yes, I will express myself. No you don't have to agree, and that doesn't mean I think you are horrible person. What you are saying is as long as I agree with you, you can handle it. Good to know.

I deleted that thread because no matter how much I insist it is my view, and I am within my full rights to express it, I know people like yourself will get offended and whine. If you don't want to hear other people's opinion, and especially those who are grounded in what they believe and it contradicts you, then I suggest not using the internet.

Who said I was offended? I called you out for using your religion to tell others they are wrong. From your initial post on this thread you shared your opinion on how you perceive marriage which is fine but then went further to tell the OP how they are wrong about what they shared based on your religion.

Nobody has a problem with you sharing your personal view, the problem is when you tell others they are wrong based on yours.

[AJ444]

Yes you can express your beliefs as long as you don't do so in a way that invalidates or insults the beliefs of others.

It isn't right according to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't right.

I'm a happily married heterosexual man but still find it offensive when people insist that marriage must be between a man and a woman. I have far too many gay friends and family members who have beautiful, loving families, some who have been together for decades and were only recently allowed to finally get married under the law, a right that had been denied for far too long because of religious objections and baseless discrimination.

Seeing my aunt marry her long time partner was an amazing experience. They had to wait so long before it was finally legal, I couldn't have been more thrilled for them.

[GoodSteward]

Yes you can express your beliefs as long as you don't do so in a way that invalidates or insults the beliefs of others.

It isn't right according to you, but that doesn't mean it isn't right.

I'm a happily married heterosexual man but still find it offensive when people insist that marriage must be between a man and a woman. I have far too many gay friends and family members who have beautiful, loving families, some who have been together for decades and were only recently allowed to finally get married under the law, a right that had been denied for far too long because of religious objections and baseless discrimination.

You do realize you are doing the same thing I get accused of often by you and others on here. You see, you are offended at the idea of someone being against gay marriage, but I am offended at the idea of gay marriage. Who gets the right to say their view is not offense? I know my view is offensive to people because people don't want to follow the Bible. So to call me out for my view while you and others get a free pass to speak down at me because my view is the politically incorrect religious view is hypocritical. I'm being called a terrible, judgmental person by people acting terrible and judgemental. The problem is that people don't like to be told they are wrong. My moral compass is rooted in the bible, not what makes me feel good. If you don't agree with that, fine, move on. Understand it's the bible you are against, not me. The bible says what marriage should be, and that is how I will stand by it.

[disneysteve]

The bible says what marriage should be, and that is how I will stand by it.

The issue (and I'm not saying this applies to you) is when people use the bible or Koran or Torah or some other ancient text as an excuse to discriminate against people today.

If you (generic you) don't approve of gay marriage, you absolutely have every right to not marry another man. But as soon as you suggest that it's "wrong" for 2 other men to marry, you've overstepped your bounds.

Religion is personal. It provides a compass of sorts for how you choose to live your life. That's fine. I've got no problem with that. But it doesn't give you the right to impose your beliefs on others or tell others how they should or shouldn't live their lives. That's where the legal stuff becomes necessary.

As for not wanting to follow the Bible, that's true. There are a great many people who are not Christian and don't adhere to the Christian Bible. I'm Jewish so I'm one of those people. We have very different beliefs than you based on what you've posted. We don't discriminate based on sexual orientation. We welcome homosexual members into our congregations and recognize and perform same sex marriages. At one time or another, our congregation has had a gay Cantor, a gay Rabbi, a gay congregational President, and a gay Preschool director, not to mention many gay members, some single, some married (the Rabbi and the Preschool director were both married [not to each other]). If someone is not okay with that, they shouldn't join our congregation. They wouldn't be happy here.

It's really no different than members we've had join us over the years who were staunch Republicans. They didn't last long as members because they totally didn't fit in. We welcomed them with open arms but they found they didn't agree with our policies and practices and ultimately left and went elsewhere.

Sorry if I offended you.

[rennigade]

The bible says what marriage should be, and that is how I will stand by it.

Im glad you said this. This is the reason why ideology can be so dangerous. Its why people strap bombs to their chest, walk into a coffee shop and blow the entire place up. Its why people throw gays off of buildings. Its the reason why people lock others in cages and light them on fire. In the name of a higher power. All because of what a book told them to do and believe.

Do you not have the ability to think for yourself? Do you not have opinions of your own?

Again...scary stuff.

[JoeP]

Any time religion is part of a situation, there is bound to be differences of opinion, and possibly tension. I've known families that were broken up over religion.

Having said that, it is really up to those faced with the situation to make the decision that is right for them. If the family cannot accept the decision, then that is something for them to reconcile (or not).

[Mjenn]

You do realize you are doing the same thing I get accused of often by you and others on here. You see, you are offended at the idea of someone being against gay marriage, but I am offended at the idea of gay marriage. Who gets the right to say their view is not offense? I know my view is offensive to people because people don't want to follow the Bible. So to call me out for my view while you and others get a free pass to speak down at me because my view is the politically incorrect religious view is hypocritical. I'm being called a terrible, judgmental person by people acting terrible and judgemental. The problem is that people don't like to be told they are wrong. My moral compass is rooted in the bible, not what makes me feel good. If you don't agree with that, fine, move on. Understand it's the bible you are against, not me. The bible says what marriage should be, and that is how I will stand by it.

See here is the thing -- I am not offended that someone does not like or agree with gay marriage.

I am not OK when someone stands in the way of the right of homosexuals to marry because they do not agree with gay marriage.

There is a difference. I think TexasHuskar's description of marriage from above is one of the most depressing I have read in years. But how he views marriage is between he and his wife, as long as he is not violating any laws. Same with you and your spouse. You got married in a way that you see fit. And I would fight for you to retain that right to do so just as much as I would fight for the right of gay couples to do so.

What I do not support and what I adamantly oppose is standing in the way of other people's access to civil rights because they go against your beliefs.

If you do not agree with the 'idea' of gay marriage you have many options, you can not get married to someone of the same sex. You can not attend a church that conducts such ceremonies. You can opt out of attending any such ceremonies and refuse to send a gift. You can reach out to homosexual people and try to show them the path to your biblical interpretation. All of these things are 100% a way that you can have this disagreement with the idea of gay marriage and I would not care.

But if you start trying to take away people's equal protection under the law? Nope.

To be fair, for myself I would have been fine accepting a legal partnership that awarded my family the same civil rights of married couples without being married because I did not feel particularly attached to the state of marriage. But separate is not equal and if there were a legal partnership option it could only exist fairly where marriage was either offered under government law to all adult couples or none.

[disneysteve]

See here is the thing -- I am not offended that someone does not like or agree with gay marriage.

I am not OK when someone stands in the way of the right of homosexuals to marry because they do not agree with gay marriage.

There is a difference.

Exactly this. If my earlier post didn't convey this, this is what I was trying to say.

[Petunia 100]

You do realize you are doing the same thing I get accused of often by you and others on here.

No, DisneySteve has never been anything but polite and respectful to everyone, in all of the years he has been moderating these message boards. It is entirely possible to have a completely different point of view yet still be polite and respectful to others.

You ought to give it a try.

In your very first response on this thread, you informed OP that she is wrong about how legal marriage impacted her relationship with her husband. What a laughably ridiculous remark. OP certainly knows the intricacies of her relationship with her husband far better than you do. How could you possibly imagine otherwise?

In my opinion, you have no business being a moderator. Your financial knowledge is seriously lacking and you cause problems, rather than put an end to them. Also, in case it has entirely escaped your notice, this is a personal finance forum. It is not a place to talk incessantly about one's religious views.

I have emailed James Hendrickson and told him I think so.

[rennigade]

In my opinion, you have no business being a moderator. Your financial knowledge is seriously lacking and you cause problems, rather than put an end to them.

Well said. Im not sure how they ever became a moderator. James should really reconsider.

[james.hendrickson]

Guys - thanks everyone for their input on this. It looks like this thread is getting a bit heated, so I'm going to go ahead and close it for a few days to give folks a chance to step back and cool off.