Trumpcare?

[TexasHusker]

Many of cheaper plans sold prior to the ACA lacked coverage for certain things, had annual and lifetime limits on payouts, etc. People weren't allowed to keep these plans because they were no longer compliant with the minimum coverage requirements in the ACA.

Exactly. Who is the gubmit to tell me what my minimum coverage should be? I don't want to pay for a copay plan. I don't buy any of my insurances that way. My car insurance deductible is $2000, my home deductible is now around $7500 I believe.

I don't need the gubmit to mandate my healthcare finance. If someone needs Uncle Sam's help, then by all means sign up for their plan.

[bigdaddybus]

Many of cheaper plans sold prior to the ACA lacked coverage for certain things, had annual and lifetime limits on payouts, etc. People weren't allowed to keep these plans because they were no longer compliant with the minimum coverage requirements in the ACA.

So true, PRE ACA my company offered 4 choices. Post ACA it was 1 choice, that goes up in cost 25% or more every year.

[TexasHusker]

So true, PRE ACA my company offered 4 choices. Post ACA it was 1 choice, that goes up in cost 25% or more every year.

Well at least it's now affordable.

[hamchan]

There's a difference between copay coverage and coverage that doesn't have max payouts and huge gaps. The ACA does NOT mandate that any insurance plan use the copay system. My husband works for UHC and our plan doesn't have copays. We pay 100% until the deductible is met. Do I think that insurance companies should be allowed to sell crappy plans that don't offer any real protection? No, I do not.

8 or 9 years ago I accepted a job offer that included insurance coverage only to find out after I signed up for it that it had a $10,000 lifetime maximum payout. What the hell is that crap? I wound up having to switch jobs again a few months later. Insurance companies need to be regulated, just like financial services, because they are out to make money, and have no compunction about doing so at the expense of hardworking people who don't understand they are being sold an inferior product until the floor falls out underneath them.

[cooliemae]

Exactly. Who is the gubmit to tell me what my minimum coverage should be? I don't want to pay for a copay plan. I don't buy any of my insurances that way. My car insurance deductible is $2000, my home deductible is now around $7500 I believe.

I presume you live in a state that has minimum insurance coverage for auto insurance, so while you may choose to have a higher deductible the minimum coverage is still dictated by the state. Sounds a lot like the ACA.

[PeggyHefferon]

I presume you live in a state that has minimum insurance coverage for auto insurance, so while you may choose to have a higher deductible the minimum coverage is still dictated by the state. Sounds a lot like the ACA.

But aren't those minimum coverage for auto insurance laws a requirement for liability insurance? They don't prevent you from incurring a ton of expense from the loss of your own vehicle and personal injury. They simply insure that you are covered to pay for damage you do to other property and injuries of others.

[disneysteve]

But aren't those minimum coverage for auto insurance laws a requirement for liability insurance? They don't prevent you from incurring a ton of expense from the loss of your own vehicle and personal injury. They simply insure that you are covered to pay for damage you do to other property and injuries of others.

Yes, but the point is that it is government-mandated coverage. You can't decide to not carry that insurance and self-insure.

Part of what has changed with medical insurance is coverage for preventative care being required, so things like mammograms and colonoscopies are now required to be covered which wasn't true before. So if you had a plan that didn't cover that stuff, the plan had to be changed to account for that.

[TexasHusker]

Yes, but the point is that it is government-mandated coverage. You can't decide to not carry that insurance and self-insure.

Part of what has changed with medical insurance is coverage for preventative care being required, so things like mammograms and colonoscopies are now required to be covered which wasn't true before. So if you had a plan that didn't cover that stuff, the plan had to be changed to account for that.

My liability auto insurance runs about $30 a month. While the state mandates minimum coverage, the dollar amount is insignificant.

It's a very different animal than mandating a narrow choice of expensive health plans.

[PeggyHefferon]

Yes, but the point is that it is government-mandated coverage. You can't decide to not carry that insurance and self-insure.

I get that, but it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Requiring someone to have liability insurance for injuring someone else (or their property) is certainly different that requiring someone to get insurance for their own health.

I personally don't care if someone chooses not to cover their own car or potential injuries, but I certainly agree with requiring insurance for damage they might do.

I also don't care if someone chooses not to insure against their own health issues.

[Singuy]

Texas, you know the math doesn't really add up for insurance companies when it comes to the coverage you need and the premium it commands right?.

You always use your car insurance as an example, or a home insurance as an example, so lets do that.

Car insurance, 120 dollars/month.

You have a fender bender, cost insurance company 4k to fix.
You total your range rover, insurance company pays out 45k(perhaps the worth of your car currently.
Insurance companies usually assumes most people don't total a car once per year.

Do you know how much it cost for the insurance to pay out for my dad with a kidney transplant and a rare CIDP disease to live per year?

250k/year. He gets TWO IVIG treatments a year which cost 100k/treatment just so he can walk. Lets not even mention the cost of his kidney transplant and all the dialysis he received throughout the years. That's right, every year..my dad cost insurance companies(the government in this case) more money than the average cost of a 2000 squareft house. In the past 10 years, my dad probably ran a bill of close to 2 million dollars.

He's on medicare. If medicare doesn't exist, what kind of premium do you think my dad will have? Which insurance company can expect to cover him and make a buck? Your car or your house is peanuts compared to health care cost. The only way is to get rid of insurance companies because it's a lose lose business for them UNLESS they do shady practices like increase your premium to the point of affordability when you are ACTUALLY sick or NOT sell you any insurance if you have pre-existing conditions.

The ONLY way to cover healthcare cost is with tax money. Other industrialized countries have figured this out...even China figured this out. Americans really need to learn their math and get with the program.

[PeggyHefferon]

Singuy, of course there are people who cost insurance companies money every year. And those costs are offset by those that pay premiums and rarely/never file claims.

Not sure I get the point you are making

[TexasHusker]

Texas, you know the math doesn't really add up for insurance companies when it comes to the coverage you need and the premium it commands right?.

You always use your car insurance as an example, or a home insurance as an example, so lets do that.

Car insurance, 120 dollars/month.

You have a fender bender, cost insurance company 4k to fix.
You total your range rover, insurance company pays out 45k(perhaps the worth of your car currently.
Insurance companies usually assumes most people don't total a car once per year.

Do you know how much it cost for the insurance to pay out for my dad with a kidney transplant and a rare CIDP disease to live per year?

250k/year. He gets TWO IVIG treatments a year which cost 100k/treatment just so he can walk. Lets not even mention the cost of his kidney transplant and all the dialysis he received throughout the years. That's right, every year..my dad cost insurance companies(the government in this case) more money than the average cost of a 2000 squareft house. In the past 10 years, my dad probably ran a bill of close to 2 million dollars.

He's on medicare. If medicare doesn't exist, what kind of premium do you think my dad will have? Which insurance company can expect to cover him and make a buck? Your car or your house is peanuts compared to health care cost. The only way is to get rid of insurance companies because it's a lose lose business for them UNLESS they do shady practices like increase your premium to the point of affordability when you are ACTUALLY sick or NOT sell you any insurance if you have pre-existing conditions.

The ONLY way to cover healthcare cost is with tax money. Other industrialized countries have figured this out...even China figured this out. Americans really need to learn their math and get with the program.

Insurance companies are often paying 8-10 times what they should. I have pretty intimate knowledge of hospital markups: I negotiated managed care contracts on behalf of a large healthcare system for 20 years.

The business model seemed to be to continuously buy our local competition and absolutely hammer the payers with our leverage. My colleagues in other major cities were in a similar situation.

This situation is a big reason why I walked away - I just couldn't stomach the insanity any more. It was unconscionable.

[Singuy]

Singuy, of course there are people who cost insurance companies money every year. And those costs are offset by those that pay premiums and rarely/never file claims.

Not sure I get the point you are making

The difference between a car and a person is that not every car on the road will eventually get totaled..Or gets totaled brand new(where insurance pays out the most).

Everyone unfortunately gets sick and eventually die. Unlike a car that gets cheaper and cheaper for the payout, a person becomes more and more expensive to insure. There's no such thing as "of course there are those that cost a lot"..Because eventually everyone costs a lot. If your heart doesn't give out, cancer will help you along.

[PeggyHefferon]

The difference between a car and a person is that not every car on the road will eventually get totaled..Or gets totaled brand new(where insurance pays out the most).

Everyone unfortunately gets sick and eventually die. Unlike a car that gets cheaper and cheaper for the payout, a person becomes more and more expensive to insure. There's no such thing as "of course there are those that cost a lot"..Because eventually everyone costs a lot. If your heart doesn't give out, cancer will help you along.

There are plenty of deaths that are not preceded by expensive healthcare costs.

[TexasHusker]

The difference between a car and a person is that not every car on the road will eventually get totaled..Or gets totaled brand new(where insurance pays out the most).

Everyone unfortunately gets sick and eventually die. Unlike a car that gets cheaper and cheaper for the payout, a person becomes more and more expensive to insure. There's no such thing as "of course there are those that cost a lot"..Because eventually everyone costs a lot. If your heart doesn't give out, cancer will help you along.

Luckily dying doesn't cost you a dime. It's trying to keep you from dying that gets pricey at times. Maybe the answer is that if you get too sick, get Uncle Sam to swing a ball peen hammer at your temple and put you out of your misery, thereby saving you and your insurance company further grief.