Working Relationships

[LivingAlmostLarge]

A friend of mine has been dating this coworker from work. They work on the same projects together and he's got 15 years seniority, is about 20 years her senior. They are not telling anyone about their relationship. She tells me over the phone when I question how they will take finding out the relationship and she says she won't tell anyone about it until they are married. "It's not affecting our work, so why does it matter and whose business is it???" Now she said there isn't an explicit rule about their relationship, but if it's found out she could be forced to transfer or he could. So this I felt was a bad situation and hence suggested a new job.

Now does two coworkers who work together, what can happen pros and cons of the employer finding out? Can they fire you? Is it illegal to fire someone over that? He's not her direct boss, but I guess more like he's the superior officer on the project or more senior KWIM???

Her boss is above both of them. They do get reviews, but I am not sure if they review each other. However, this relationship did start because of their working together so closely she said. And I am pushing her to apply to other jobs because this smells bad. If you don't tell people of an office romance is it bad? Or when do you have to reveal it?

And yes there is worse news to this scenario that's off thread of finances. The guy she's involved with is still married. They got involved and he left his wife for her. We discussed this, because for the first time she was honest about how he left his wife for her. Before she told me that they were only friends (I caught them in January accidentally, long story but at the time I didn't know he was married, I figured a fling with a coworker). He's in the process of getting a divorce. She now says that the "heart wants what the heart wants" and that he's "the one" and she knows it in her bones. He's planning on proposing by the end of the year, hopefully as soon as the divorce finalizes. So of course broadcasting their relationship right now is a not a good idea even if they didn't work together.

It's hard for me to hear this because well I'm married. And I can't fathom how she can date him or respect him when he cheated on his wife. And wants to marry him when he's cheated on his wife. And she says that cheating on a marriage is "grey". She asked me where I defined it and I said, divorced minimally, better yet divorced + 2 years. She says that emotionally if the marriage is over is it cheating? I said yes, but she said it's over so it's not like she ended the marriage.

And yes she does realize that he is leaping from one marriage to another. I did caution her about that. I just don't get what is going on in her head. And when I said what if you were the wife being left would you be happy to find out your husband is already seieng someone else and you aren't even divorced yet? Her answer no response, but she still moralizes it was an "empty" marriage.

[mladyd]

Speaking as the wife of a guy who got emotionally involved with a gal 20 yrs his junior while working together I share your concerns for your friend. If I'm reading your post right I'm guessing this older guy is going thru some kind of midlife crisis, where the attention of a sweet young thing trumps anything and everything that is going on in his life, including his marriage/family. And the gal feels like she has "won" some kind of prize by taking a guy away from his wife. These dynamics really stroke the egos!!!!I hate to think how common this is and it may well be that this guy will divorce his wife and marry your friend, but you might want to tell her that's when the fantasy will end and reality will smack them both upside the head. Will their relationship survive when the guy realizes he still isn't happy with his life and she realizes he isn't such a prize after all? Hard to say, but from what I understand most of the relationships that start off this way do not last. I don't know how long your friend has been involved with this guy but things have a way of blowing over given enough time.

BTW, after years of marriage counseling my H is still here. Barely. His young friend is still hovering in the background but since it's been over 3 years since their initial connection things have cooled off considerably, and new "friends" have begun to catch both their eyes. I'm certain that if we do divorce he won't be jumping into marriage with her or anyone else.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Yeah but can he could ruin her job if they break up. And they've been involved for 9 months. I think she should leave the job in case they find out or if they break up it could be tough.

Supposedly he's legally seperated and close to getting a divorce, so they are VERY serious about getting married next year. He should be proposing she said at the end of the year, or as soon as the divorce goes through.

[Broken Arrow]

Wow. This is so close to what happened to me.

That's how my ex-wife met her boyfriend at the time, when they were co-workers.

I think your friend is treading on very dangerous waters here.

And she's rationalizing way too much.

Now, I realize that I may be personally biased here, and that's probably true. However, let's consider the following factoids:

1. This man is cheating on his wife. I question his integrity and faithfulness towards your friend.

2. They are both doing it so close at work. Is that really good for either one's careers?

3. How is a marriage "grey"? If you're married, you're married. If you're not, you're not. He's married. It doesn't matter if his marriage is on its way out, he's still married!

4. In fact, in my state, affairs such as this can be sued over civil court for punitive damages. (And believe me, I have spent a lot of nights pondering that option during my separation.) There is no "grey". There is only rationalizing like what my ex-wife did. So not only are they risking their careers, but depending on state laws, they may also be risking lawsuits.

5. People are going to find out. You found out before she told you about it. Heck, I found out about my ex too, and that's before she even told me anything. (I had to confirm though, just to make sure it wasn't some nasty rumor going around.) So, if they're really bent on doing this, hiding like roaches isn't the smartest thing to do.

You're better than me. I simply can not be friends with people like that. They have no sense of character, and they do not appear to care for anyone but themselves. In fact, even as a friend, I would recommend distancing yourself from them, just so you wouldn't accidentally get caught up in their drama.

[Broken Arrow]

Supposedly he's legally seperated....

I'm not entirely sure what that means.

Although I acknowledge that every state is different, there is no such thing as a LEGAL separation in my state. There is only a legal divorce.

However, during separation, you can draft legally-binding documents of agreements that can carry-over when the divorce is finalized. And I suppose if both parties agreed, a provision can be made in the agreement so that they consent to each other to date outside their marriage. The marriage, then, would only be valid in strictly legal terms but not in practice.

Even if that is the case, your friend is still placing herself in grave danger. Whether she turns out to be right about him or not is not the question. She believes in him blindly, and refuses to consider any other reasonable concerns to her point of view.

By the way, does the wife know about all this?

[LivingAlmostLarge]

Frienship is friendship. You can't bail on the tough times. Besides I have to suggest to her to break-up with him without saying he's a cheater. And the work situation seems perfect because she's VERY nervous about it.

Couple of things:

1. He's 50 and she's 30. And no his wife does not know about it.

2. Legally seperated means he's left his wife and filed divorce papers, but they are not yet divorced. It seems to be taking quite a while and I know she's very stressed. She has not told her dad, brother, sister, and most friends.

3. I caught them because they were travelling for work and we meet up at the airport. And he was being very creepy, or so I thought for a "coworker". He was well overly into her and just really standing close to her and our conversation, KWIM? And at the time she never mentioned he was married when I brought up the strange behavior. She said they were "close" friends and I inferred dating. He was still married and living with wifey.

4. Grey in marriage = emotionally left marriage and the marriage was over before she got into the picture. Or so he says.

5. He isn't her boss but they work on all the same projects together and has "seniority". If the company finds out she said they'd make one of them switch jobs at the least. She doesn't know the exact company policy.

But isn't it illegal to fire someone over an office romance? You can't be discriminated against right? Only if reviews are bad? But they probably will get good reviews?

[Broken Arrow]

I hope it doesn't seem like I am giving you a hard time or anything. I understand and sympathize with your predicament. In fact, I ultimately agree with what you have told her. It's just that I admit I have a personal beef with this issue, that's all.

2. Legally seperated means he's left his wife and filed divorce papers, but they are not yet divorced. It seems to be taking quite a while and I know she's very stressed. She has not told her dad, brother, sister, and most friends.

I understand what you are saying here. I only want to point out that, regardless of semantics or situation, the state I live in anyway does NOT give any legal backing for being separated. In other words, having an affair with someone when you're still legally married is still considered as adultery. The circumstances surrounding the separation is legally irrelevant.

Your friend has good reasons to hide and stay quiet. Of course, if she was in her right frame of mind, she would also realize that, by having to do that in the first place, something is very wrong with this picture.

4. Grey in marriage = emotionally left marriage and the marriage was over before she got into the picture. Or so he says.

I realize this is his words, not yours, but it still doesn't pass the smell test with me. Nobody said marriage was ever going to be easy, and besides, "emotionally left" does NOT give one the right to abandon and possibly destroy their spouse's life simply because they have decided to "emotionally leave" or that this is rationalized as some kind of "grey" area.

As you said, it would be best to finalize divorce, amicably and cooperatively, wait a couple of years to regain one's own balance in life, then set forth and determine if marriage with your friend is the best course of action. If they were meant for each other, this little detour wouldn't change much in the grand scheme of things.

But isn't it illegal to fire someone over an office romance? You can't be discriminated against right? Only if reviews are bad? But they probably will get good reviews?

The exact policy regarding office romance is determined by each company's own internal rules and regulations, and to some extent, the management or HR's judgement. Beyond that, there should not be any legal law against office romance.

Still, the reason why there are company policies to begin with is because, sometimes, these things do cause performance issues. Especially if for some reason things don't work out after all. Oh, but that will never happen, right? Because she knows deep in her bones that this is Mr. Right.

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I doubt she would be talking to me if I hadn't caught her. It was also unexpected because I showed up to chat between flights. So it wasn't really a planned thing and whammo. I figured it was a cool fling because she is just out of 3 year long term serious relationship.

And I know she's mentally stressing. I know she's very nervous about being forced out or something.

[Seeker]

2. Legally seperated means he's left his wife and filed divorce papers, but they are not yet divorced. It seems to be taking quite a while and I know she's very stressed. She has not told her dad, brother, sister, and most friends.

3. I caught them because they were travelling for work and we meet up at the airport. And he was being very creepy, or so I thought for a "coworker". He was well overly into her and just really standing close to her and our conversation, KWIM? And at the time she never mentioned he was married when I brought up the strange behavior. She said they were "close" friends and I inferred dating. He was still married and living with wifey.

4. Grey in marriage = emotionally left marriage and the marriage was over before she got into the picture. Or so he says.

2) Legally separated (at least here in California) means that he and she have gone to a court and petitioned for a "legal" separation. Usually this is done to keep some ties with the other party (ie... medical insurance, religious beliefs, etc). Essentally both agree to separate (live apart) but not to remarry ; the "marriage" bonds are left intact. Neither party can remarry unless one passes on (death) or they divorce (judgement of dissolution).

3) Is this 20 years older man still living with wife? There's no separation at all if they still live together. Sounds as if wife is totally out of this picture.

4) This would concern me.

[Gruntina]

And I know she's mentally stressing. I know she's very nervous about being forced out or something.

I would consider just having the feelings you mentioned above of your friend to be a red flag that you are not with the right person at the right time as far as dating relationship goes.

A healthy relationship would not affect your individual needs to become unhealthy. But truth is, your friend is a big girl and makes her own choices and may have to face consequences of her action.

Not sure how close your friendships is with her, but if she ever asks for feedback or advice, maybe provide empowerment talks of herself rather than her relationship as it seems she is settling for someone who is not watching out for her best interest. Only she can take care of herself in best way possible and may need friendly reminders on that.

My motto - Take Care of Yourself!

[LivingAlmostLarge]

I am hoping he isn't divorced by the end of the year she leaves him. Praying for a miracle.