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Need Advice for Sister in Upside Down Car

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  • Need Advice for Sister in Upside Down Car

    I've mentioned my older sister on this site once or twice before because she is painfully bad with money and is always in trouble financially one way or another. It appears that she has hit a near-bottom situation in her budget and something needs to give soon. Most of this has been communicated to me through my mother, who footed my sister's bills during 8 months of unemployment last year but is no longer willing to help my sister financially. My grandmother also helped and continues to help whenever my sister asks, but my mother has been encouraging her not to bail my sister out anymore.

    Just over 5 years ago at age 25, my sister bought a used 2005 Pontiac G6 from a dealership salesman "friend" by trading in a Nissan sedan my mother bought outright for her (value estimated to be about $2-3k at the time, sister never confirmed this on trade in). My sister did this without consulting anyone and did no research on the car, so she took a loan of $36,000 (we know she overpaid a boatload) for 6 years at 16% interest.

    This car is likely the biggest financial burden on her right now as she has $8,000 left on the loan and the car is valued at about $4-5k right now if she sold it privately (she has missed regular oil changes and other maintenance, so this may be generous). She missed payments on it and her student loans during her unemployment, so her credit is too trashed to refinance or move it to a credit line. She has no savings, no retirement and is barely breaking even each month thanks in part to a “roommate” who doesn’t pay his fair share of the bills, but she refuses to kick him out. The stress has been wearing on her mental and physical health for months and I’m worried that her job is also very much on the line right now because of it.

    I was able to extrapolate the basics of her budget from my mother. These numbers may not be exact, but my mother has tried to go over this with my sister recently, so I suspect this is close to accurate since my sister has no emergency fund or credit to fall back on.

    Monthly Net Income: $2,368. Technically $1,093 paid every 2 weeks, so most months it's $2,186, but some months she gets three paychecks)
    Variable “Rent” Income from “Roommate”: $100-400. Varies a lot.

    Rent: $650. 2 bedroom, one bathroom. I think she’s about 4 months into a one-year lease.
    Car Payment: $467.
    Gasoline: ~$200. This is my estimate because she commutes about 60 miles a day.
    Car Insurance: $160. She’s still required to keep full coverage because of car loan; also high because of a few old tickets.
    Student Loan: $210. This was recently garnished from her wages.
    Food: ~$300. This is my best guess; my sister doesn’t really know how to cook, but according to my mom she doesn’t eat fast food too often. I suspect it’s not less than this, and she often foots the bill for the “roommate.”
    Utilities: Unknown. “Roommate” does not contribute; all bills and lease in sister’s name only.
    Cable/Internet: Unknown. I already suggested to my mother that she cut it, but my sister claims it’s the only source of entertainment she has currently and she needs the internet for her work.
    Cell Phone: Unknown. I know she has it and uses it frequently, full data package and all. Needs at least the phone part for work.


    Assets: None. Already sold most purses and jewelry to pay off debts.
    Savings: None
    Retirement: None

    Car Debt: ~$8,000 @ ~16%
    Federal Student Debt: Unknown, but likely between $30,000-40,000. My sister did deferment and forbearance as long as she could, so no way to avoid repayment right now. She also has a private student loan, but my father has been paying it.
    Credit Cards: None to our knowledge. I don’t think she has ever qualified for one.

    Due to the missed payments on the car loan, my sister has about 18 months-2 years left in payments. The car already has 150,000 miles on it, so we’re also concerned about how well the car will hold together in that time and when she will need to replace it altogether.

    My mother believes my sister cannot get rid of the car because she cannot take public transportation to work. I’m not sure this is true, but my sister works in a city 25 miles from home and neither are in good neighborhoods, so my mom may just be worried about her safety. She believes none of her coworkers can take her to work or even carpool.

    I know the apartment is borderline too expensive for her to afford without a roommate, but she needs to at least kick out the current guy and get a real roommate if she can’t get him to split the rent and utilities fairly. I think the best solution for my sister would be to move in with my mother for a year and put the rent money toward the car until it’s paid off, but I don’t think my mother would be crazy about it and my sister refused to do this even while she was unemployed.

    So I need your help, everyone! What would you suggest for my sister’s situation?
    Last edited by papa_squat; 11-19-2012, 01:13 PM.

  • #2
    Having seen similar elsewhere, I doubt your sister changes her ways until she falls further, gets evicted, etc. Sounds like your mom has realized this. The best thing for her long term may be to stop getting bailed out by family.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by MakeAStash View Post
      Having seen similar elsewhere, I doubt your sister changes her ways until she falls further, gets evicted, etc. Sounds like your mom has realized this. The best thing for her long term may be to stop getting bailed out by family.
      I absolutely agree. The only way we can help her at this point is to consider the options and suggest what she can do from here. My advice always falls on deaf ears since she's my sibling, but perhaps my mom can persuade her to take the best action. I honestly do think there's a psychological reason she refuses to understand finances because she can be remarkably bright and logical in a conversation, but she chooses to learn almost everything the hard way and believes she just has horrible luck with finances.

      Sooo... any ideas on what that action might be? After trimming out the superfluous phone package, cutting cable and kicking out the leech roommate, she might have a little more room to pay down the car loan, but I don't see an affordable solution that doesn't involve moving in with my mom. Anyone have any other ideas? I'm worried if this goes on much longer, either my mom or my grandmother will cave and write another bailout check.
      Last edited by papa_squat; 11-19-2012, 04:48 PM.

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      • #4
        Letting her boomerang to living back home is only another form of enabling. At that age I worked multiple jobs, and the bills were paid quickly.

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        • #5
          Your sister isn't ready to take responsibility for her finances. Gran paying off bills didn't help DS. Mom buying a fully paid car didn't help. Deadbeat BF is enjoying everyone's generosity. Having salary garnished can be a trigger in losing employment and your fears are realistic.

          If you can get DSis to buy-in to the idea of getting out of debt she could reduce stress and solve a passel of problems.

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          • #6
            Several have suggested your sister is choosing this path for now in her life, but you don't seem to want to hear that message. I would suggest you examine your own motives at this point, to try and understand why you are so determined to pick up the pieces of this losing battle on her behalf. Some part of you "needs" to take this on, even though it seems pretty clear to all that any ongoing efforts at this time are futile.

            Letting go and letting her continue on her journey her way doesn't mean you don't love her. It means you recognize we each walk our own paths in the way we choose. Enjoy her for those things that make her unique, and separate yourself from those parts of her life that are clearly in the chaos of her own making.

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            • #7
              That's a tough situation and unfortunately one that you or anyone else won't be able to fix for her. Your sister needs to want to make a change.

              As far as an action plan, step one would be to get rid of "room mate." Step two, would be for the family to cut her off fimancially. Step three, and the most difficult, is to re-educate your sister and get her to change her way of thinking about money. I'm not sure if that is going to be possible until she truly hits rock bottom though.
              Brian

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              • #8
                Originally posted by EarlyRetirementJoy View Post
                Several have suggested your sister is choosing this path for now in her life, but you don't seem to want to hear that message. I would suggest you examine your own motives at this point, to try and understand why you are so determined to pick up the pieces of this losing battle on her behalf. Some part of you "needs" to take this on, even though it seems pretty clear to all that any ongoing efforts at this time are futile.

                Letting go and letting her continue on her journey her way doesn't mean you don't love her. It means you recognize we each walk our own paths in the way we choose. Enjoy her for those things that make her unique, and separate yourself from those parts of her life that are clearly in the chaos of her own making.
                Thanks evertyone for your comments so far. You all pointed very much the same point EarlyRetirementJoy noted here. My sister has choose this and probably isn't ready to straighten out her finances. A lot of my motivation over the years has gravitated toward my mother's financial well being since she's on a tight budget and has often sacrificed her savings to keep my sister a float. If she can stick to her guns (and I believe she can this time) then I won't worry about her.

                But now that she is cut off, I worry for my sister's mental and physical health. She was in tears talking about how broke she is within the first few hours we saw each other when I visited a few weeks ago. She panics about money to the point of vomiting almost every day. I know my sister wants kids, but she's thinks it's impossible to have any since she has no stability in life. She seems to go for loser guys that mooch off her and never want a serious relationship, and she continues to make bad mistakes because she feels like she has no other choice. What's even worse is she discredits me and my efforts by suggesting I'm just lucky because I married a guy who has money, when the reality is I educated myself and my husband and I save our money. I want to see her turn her life around and be happy for her own sake, but I know I can't convince her to even try if she isn't ready to put in the effort.

                For now, I will heed everyone's advice and try to distance myself from the situation. I will try to be kind when I see her at Christmas and not stir the pot, but it's hard to keep watching her crash and burn like this.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by MakeAStash View Post
                  Letting her boomerang to living back home is only another form of enabling. At that age I worked multiple jobs, and the bills were paid quickly.
                  I've also mentioned getting a part-time job before and she is interested, but her hours at her day job are a bit random, especially during the holidays. There also aren't too many part-time jobs avaiable out there, but I keep hoping she'll find at least a seasonal position in retail a few nights a week.

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                  • #10
                    If she likes kids and our goods with them babysitting is a great second job. Use care.com or sittercity.com and she can schedule how she wishes. I personally find its great extra money for time you have available. When I am really focussing on picking up extra shifts I can make 600e to 1000the a montb.

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                    • #11
                      I couldn't get your painful situation out of my thoughts today, so when I came home I did a quick search on "How to deal with a dysfunctional family member." All the articles that came up really do point to the same place. First is to take care of yourself, second is to recognize you cannot change the person, only if and when they want to change will they, and third is to consider working with a professional, or possibly an Al-Anon group, which deals with family disfunction, to help you understand you are not responsible for fixing your sister, and furthermore, are entitled to enjoy the life you've worked so hard to create, as difficult and hard as that may be to accept.

                      I have a dysfunctional sibling that scratches out a barely there existence while I enjoy a very satisfying life. We came from the same set of parents and had basically the same upbringing. We clearly made very different choices in how we would go about living our lives. I feel no guilt that my choices brought me to where I am, while his brought him to where he is. I feel empathy for him, I hold some small hope he might change, but otherwise, I am at peace because I recognize he continues to choose his path, just as I continue to choose mine.

                      Be kind to yourself and enjoy your life. Who else will if you don't?

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by EarlyRetirementJoy View Post
                        I couldn't get your painful situation out of my thoughts today, so when I came home I did a quick search on "How to deal with a dysfunctional family member." All the articles that came up really do point to the same place. First is to take care of yourself, second is to recognize you cannot change the person, only if and when they want to change will they, and third is to consider working with a professional, or possibly an Al-Anon group, which deals with family disfunction, to help you understand you are not responsible for fixing your sister, and furthermore, are entitled to enjoy the life you've worked so hard to create, as difficult and hard as that may be to accept.

                        I have a dysfunctional sibling that scratches out a barely there existence while I enjoy a very satisfying life. We came from the same set of parents and had basically the same upbringing. We clearly made very different choices in how we would go about living our lives. I feel no guilt that my choices brought me to where I am, while his brought him to where he is. I feel empathy for him, I hold some small hope he might change, but otherwise, I am at peace because I recognize he continues to choose his path, just as I continue to choose mine.

                        Be kind to yourself and enjoy your life. Who else will if you don't?
                        Thanks for your kind words. I really do live a great life and I'm proud of the choices I've made. I will continue to hope my sister will one day say the same, but I will not make her happiness my responsibility. I can still be a good sister without getting involved in her business (especially since we live 2,000 miles away from each other). I hope that once she has no other choice (no more family bail outs) and gets tired of living this way, she'll take the steps to dig out on her own. I think it's the only things that could work at this point.

                        ESB, the babysitting is a great suggestion. She was doing that while she was unemployeed, so she should still have some contacts. I will pass that on to my mom to pass on to her.

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                        • #13
                          Your sister needs to work her butt off. She should really consider getting a part time job to help with her expenses.

                          she really needs to look at her expenses-get a prepaid cell phone, no eating out, get rid of cable etc

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