What am I getting into???

[Slug]

My one word answer is "run" If not, then definitely read the series of NYTimes articles that I think Scanner was referring to and have the discussions however difficult they may be:

Here's the pre-marriage one. My wife and I would have benefited greatly from having the affluence conversation.

Going thru a divorce over money matters.

I just read a very good article about compatibility. . .I can't remember all of the factors but I remember 3 you should be "close" on:

1. Good credit. Yeah, actually they suggest running a credit check on your future spouse. If you have a score of 720 and she has one of 590. . .there really may be a compatibility issue there. Nothing wrong with both being 590 (from a marital standpoint, altho there will be stresses) but you both should be the nearly the same as far as history.

2. Spender/saver. Again, no right or wrong per se. . .if you both are content living from hand to mouth, I wish you both very well. If you are both savers, that's good. Or if you are both good compromisers, that's good. But if you are really polar opposites and not willing to compromise, be careful about tieing the knot. You probably shouldn't.

3. Level of Affluence expectation. Is she expecting to be "taken care of" and a lifestyle that you can provide? (rarely men expect this so I am being gender biased admittedly). If so. . .and that's agreement, proceed with no judgment from family/friends. But this kind of goes hand in hand with #1. . .that credit spending could be a lust for a lifestyle that you or her can't really afford to acheive, esp. 40K. . .I can kinda see "Oops. . .before I knew it, I had 10K on the ol' credit card." But 40k? For no apparent reason (illness/disability)? Sounds like an affluence expectation coupled with financial irresponsibility.

Money and sex, 2 big matza balls should be discussed and how each would evolve in the marriage over time. It seems money is a bigger taboo to talk about in this culture.

[nataliya]

The solution could be to keep your credit histories separate after you get married. This is possible.
Best of luck!

[Kris10Leigh]

This issue is obviously far more complex than we get a glimpse of here with this little snapshot. But I agree with everyone who says the marriage should at least wait until her debts have been paid. It is not at all wise to begin a marriage with debt, especially if the debt is one sided. Whether you think so or not now, you will probably become resentful pretty quick.

[Scanner]

Slug,

Yes, that was the article. . .thanks.

[Seeker]

I have worked hard to keep my dept down and maintain good credit. However, I just found out my future wife is not in the same boat. She has $40k in cc, paying up to 27%. She ask if I could take out a personal loan to pay off her cc's. I have no idea if I can get a loan this big. Would the interest rate be less then what she is paying? Is there an advantage to getting a loan before we are married? Will her credit effect my? She owns a house. Should I suggest she use that to dig herself out?

Any suggestions would be helpful.

IMO, there's truely not enough information here to advise you.

It does not sound like you have a whole lot of money either.

She has a house.... how much does she owe on it and is she able to maintain all of that herself?

She has cc debt.... how did she accrue all this debt? Some emergency/accident?

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Do you have a house or rent? What is your financal situation, paycheck-to-paycheck, or ?

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The high interest rate of 27% probably was not that high until recently.... so it's probably something that she's now very concerned about.

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What is the timeframe for marriage? How long have you known each other?

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All of these have answers that really only you and her can come to terms with.

Who will "control" the money, budget, bills, when you both are married and a "team?" Have you discussed any of this with her?

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I look back at my personal situation when I had absolutely no debt, some savings and a 100% paid for mortgage.... I married a man whom had a BK done prior to my meeting him, no savings, a "leased" auto because nobody would give him a loan due to the BK on his record, and education debts that had multiplied to slightly over 40k. He was not able to pay on the education debts because his wages barely supported him.

His attitude toward money and income was that I'd be given full control as long as he had some allowance to do what he wills with. As long as he had some income over and above that allowance, this was acceptable to me.

I did marry him and we did take an equity loan on the house, got him out of the leased car, into another a 3 year used car loan, and we paid for all of these debts.

Over 5 years later, we have absolutely no debts once again. The mortgage is once again free of all liens, he's got a brand new car that's fully paid off, and his education debts are paid. We have savings enough to pay for a new car for me, when my 10+ year old car fails (if it ever does).

Yes, I'm in control of the money, and we don't seem to fight about money. But he doesn't "care" about it per se.... and we are happy.

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Nobody can determine attitudes in written words.... only the two of you can decide what's right for the two of you.

The only thing I can recommend is that you both understand the full extent of everything financial from both your perspectives PRE MARRIAGE. That you discuss and come to a mutual agreement as to how everything will be handled financially while in marriage.

Trust your feelings about this (and about all things in your personal life); only you can know what's right for you.

[MaxPowers]

everyone thinks the one they marry is the one. I thought that. "no no we are so awesome together, that won't happen to us" but you have to think about the worst thing that could happen. When I got married, my wife had like 6k debt, and i paid it off immediately. I felt she was worth it, and it was now my debt, so I paid it off in a lump sum. I also cosigned for a car for her.
Well, a year later, things started to go down hill, and we got divorced. I am still fighting the ordeal with the car.
Anyway, not saying she wants a sugar daddy like some people here are implying, but I have been there, just be careful. 40k will take a long long time to pay off.

[lovcom]

I have worked hard to keep my dept down and maintain good credit. However, I just found out my future wife is not in the same boat. She has $40k in cc, paying up to 27%. She ask if I could take out a personal loan to pay off her cc's. I have no idea if I can get a loan this big. Would the interest rate be less then what she is paying? Is there an advantage to getting a loan before we are married? Will her credit effect my? She owns a house. Should I suggest she use that to dig herself out?

Any suggestions would be helpful.

People think you didn't supply enough info to get advise.

This is wrong.

You have provided more then enough information to us, and regardless of how or why she raun up $40,000 in debt does not change the fact that she is looking to YOU to get a loan to pay it off. I would not be surprised if she sells the idea as "a sign of true love"...what a stick in the groan!

DO NOT DO THIS! You'd be an idiot to marry this shipwreck. What a way to start a brand new marriage...the tone it sets from the get go is bad.

And as long as those loans are outstanding, she's got you in prison Bucko...you'll alway wonder why she really married you: for love or money?!?

It's just like the fools that get pregnant first...the woman often ask "would he have married me even if we didn't get preggies?".

See what I mean? Dump this woman asap and move on.

Don't be a fool...I am trying to save your life!

[lovcom]

Trust your feelings about this (and about all things in your personal life); only you can know what's right for you.

This is the worse advise I ever read.

It is people's "feelings" that get them in trouble in the first place!

Never go with feelings. Better to go with the head, never the heart.

Be objective, pragmatic, dispassionate about money, wealth, and love life, and it is those types that are the happiest, have the least divorce, acrimony and the paradox is, these types have the most love and fulfillment in their lives too! Whats more, these types nearly always have a fat savings, little or no debt, and big net worths...

[jIM_Ohio]

Listen to scanner...

most of advice I read is accurate, I liked Scanner's advice and comments the best.

Know the debt you are taking on- is it clothes, car repairs, medical bills or something else?

The type of debt and circumstance which created the debt need to be known by me before I give further opinions.

[Downfall]

If she has 40,000 of unsecured debt and not much property, it might make sense to simply declare bankruptcy. You may want to suggest that she consult a bankruptcy attorney ASAP. This should obviously be done pre-marriage.

[bigredmachine05]

you need a prenup. I am not kidding.

[Seeker]

LOL - i would advise her to get a prenup as well. She went in to the house ownership (solo I gather) and he does not have any sense of what that means to him neither.

What goes around comes around. If they want to keep everything separate than that's also their choice.

What people "get into" when they decide to marry or not, is personal... not public. There's no problems with asking for advice... nor should there be any problems with giving it.

My advice is not the worst, nor is it without reason. Feelings and intuition and subliminal clues (body language, facial movements, eye movement) all mean somethat that apparently the human brain is able to translate. It just does not happen with the written words; writings are just too subject to variable intrepretations. Spoken words, tones, all have "feelings" intertwined. And humans feelings change over time as well. We are all human however.

Someday every single one of us will regret some mistake we've made in the past. So? We didn't listen to ourselves... we didn't understand nor try to see it from another perspective?

I'm not saying that anyone should enter into marriage without understanding 100% of what they are getting into.

I am saying that we as outsiders looking in, have no real understanding of their history, nor attitudes, nor anything at all really of another person's reality.

Luvcom, you don't write from the brain (facts). Your reasoning is 100% from the heart(feelings). You don't have any facts. Neither do we. All we have in the OP writing is "panic."

Relationships or the lack thereof, are based on many things. Two people communicating 100% about what they feel and think about "x," is the key to a healthy understanding relationship.

But, if nobody is willing to understand and potentially rethink their position, if there is no flexibility, then there's no future there.

It's not up to you; it's not up to me. It's those two people and the whole of their reality that matters. Both the facts and the feelings; both the brain and the heart.

[Scanner]

I do think prenups get a bad rap from the religious community (Catholicism in particular).

90% of a pre-nup is discussing how finances will be handled when the marriage occurs - separate checking, co-debt prior, mutual debt during, home ownership, wills, affluence expectations even.

Do you need a new car every year? Do you need jewelry? What is at least the goal of the marriage financially? $100,000 retirement? $1,000,000? 4.2 million?

Only 10% of a pre-nup is discussing how assets are divided in the unfortunate event of a divorce (not eventuality). It doesn't really matter anyway. . .the law is clear in that any assets accumulated after the marriage is 50/50 anyway. It's only assets and liabiliites before the marriage that is unclear.

I am definitely doing a pre-nup if I remarry. Probably the biggest financial and emotional error of my life was not doing this needed action before, even if it's informal.

[b4freedom]

She has $40k in cc, paying up to 27%. She ask if I could take out a personal loan to pay off her cc's.

Don't do it. If you pay off her debt then all that is accomplished is that the burdon of her debt is now your debt. What is your recourse should the marriage never happen?

Get a prenuptual agreement and once you're married you can work towards reducing the debt.

[lovcom]

LOL - i would advise her to get a prenup as well. She went in to the house ownership (solo I gather) and he does not have any sense of what that means to him neither.

What goes around comes around. If they want to keep everything separate than that's also their choice.

What people "get into" when they decide to marry or not, is personal... not public. There's no problems with asking for advice... nor should there be any problems with giving it.

My advice is not the worst, nor is it without reason. Feelings and intuition and subliminal clues (body language, facial movements, eye movement) all mean somethat that apparently the human brain is able to translate. It just does not happen with the written words; writings are just too subject to variable intrepretations. Spoken words, tones, all have "feelings" intertwined. And humans feelings change over time as well. We are all human however.

Someday every single one of us will regret some mistake we've made in the past. So? We didn't listen to ourselves... we didn't understand nor try to see it from another perspective?

I'm not saying that anyone should enter into marriage without understanding 100% of what they are getting into.

I am saying that we as outsiders looking in, have no real understanding of their history, nor attitudes, nor anything at all really of another person's reality.

Luvcom, you don't write from the brain (facts). Your reasoning is 100% from the heart(feelings). You don't have any facts. Neither do we. All we have in the OP writing is "panic."

Relationships or the lack thereof, are based on many things. Two people communicating 100% about what they feel and think about "x," is the key to a healthy understanding relationship.

But, if nobody is willing to understand and potentially rethink their position, if there is no flexibility, then there's no future there.

It's not up to you; it's not up to me. It's those two people and the whole of their reality that matters. Both the facts and the feelings; both the brain and the heart.

You won't find one MFCC (marriage/family counselor) that would agree with you nor Dr. Phil, nor Dr. Laura.

Feelings are not about facts, and that is the problem with going with feelings because (1) they are not based on facts, and (2) they are highly subjective, so no, going with feelings means destruction in lives, and that is why we have such a high divorce rate, because most people make the mistake of going with feelings.

In fact, when one goes to marital counseling, the counselor will often ask less about how one feels, and more about "what is" (what is the facts of the situation). In other words, tell me what you believe is happening and NOT what you feel is happening. Body language is not feelings, by the way....body language is tangible language just like written words or spoken words.

One must be objective, pragmatic, logical, and that only comes from the heart, when chosing a mate.

Don't set yourself up to being a middle aged or elderly person having to live with the consequence of a 20 something person, who based their decisions on feelings (idealistic, romantisization, glorification).

This is not to demonize feelings, as we all have them, but to base a decision on feelings is too often the road to distruction.

I think feelings have their place; like in making love, showing affection, giving a gift, listening to a friend spew about her troubles. Feelings can nudge us to do the right thing, in the form of guilt, or a compulsion to reach out and help someone in need...these can be good applications of feelings.