Car died-moving forward

[elessar78]

Apparently, brother-in-law talked called my wife today and felt very guilty about it. I hadn't spoken to him since the incident, so it wasn't like he felt guilty because I told him. She said he even tried to offer her money, which she rightfully turned down. I'm ticked at him, but I know he meant well. He just practiced bad judgment.

He even admitted that he heard something snap.

Anyway, we're still discussing our options. Thanks again for the responses.

[red92s]

It would be very difficult to do anything while poking about under the hood that would cause the type of failure you are describing. In all likelihood, if a part is going to fail catastrophically like that, whatever he did probably just initiated the failure about 150 feet before it would have happened anyways.

I think a lot of people here are underestimating the labor involved with removing and installing a modern engine. Clearances are tight, spaces are small, and connections are plentiful. The radiator probably has to come out, air conditioning parts likely need to be disconnected, drive axles need to be separated, the transmission has to come off and be refitted to the new motor, and there are probably 30+ belts, fuel, electrical, and fluid connections that all need to be disconnected and then reconnected.

If the total bill is going to be $2500 and the engine is quoted at $1200, that means labor and materials is $1300. I'd guess that there is $200 in fluids along on a job like that (coolant, oil, ATF, etc). Shop labor is normally in the $70 an hour range, so I'd guess they are budgeting 15-16 hours on the job. I could easily see removing an engine, swapping the transmission, prepping the new engine, and reinstalling it being a 2 day job for a single guy . . . so I think their labor quote is fair.

It looks like that engine sells for $500-800 pretty regularly on Ebay. Most shops won't want to use an engine off of Ebay since they don't have much recourse if they find a problem with it. They want to use a supplier they conduct business with normally so that if problems arise they have a way to resolve them. They also need to make a profit off of the parts to keep the doors open and the lights on.

In short, I think your quote is a fair one, and I think it's the best course of action to repair the car. You MIGHT find a better quote (by a couple hundred bucks) by shopping around, but any potential savings will quickly be eroded by transportation and investment of your time, not to mention additional loss of use of the car.

[elessar78]

Red, please see other post of mine for above about what BIL did to cause the damage (furthermore he's kinda admitted that he thinks he caused it).

But you're pretty right on with a lot of the observations. He estimated 16 hours of labor. Mentioned fluids cost money as well. On eBay, motors for my car were going for around $500 plus $200 to ship. And he doesn't want to use one of those because he can't vouch for them. I've been telling my wife that the quote may be a few hundred dollars better somewhere else, but not by a thousand (which would make it worth it).

So in the last twelve hours or so, options 2 and 3 are out and option 4 is weakening.

[red92s]

Red, please see other post of mine for above about what BIL did to cause the damage (furthermore he's kinda admitted that he thinks he caused it).

I read your post, and while I'm not entirely sure what he did, I can pretty safely say that without tools and without opening the engine up, there is very, very little one could do to cause a connecting rod to fail if it wasn't on the verge of failure already.

I replaced the engine in my 1992 Honda Prelude with an engine I bought on the internet, by myself, in my driveway, in december (when I was 18 and had more time than money and sense). When the engine showed up the throttle position sensor and oxygen sensor were smashed . . . another $200 down the drain. Buying a used engine and having it shipped from a seller you dont have a good relationship with is a questionable decision at best.

[elessar78]

I read your post, and while I'm not entirely sure what he did, I can pretty safely say that without tools and without opening the engine up, there is very, very little one could do to cause a connecting rod to fail if it wasn't on the verge of failure already.

I replaced the engine in my 1992 Honda Prelude with an engine I bought on the internet, by myself, in my driveway, in december (when I was 18 and had more time than money and sense). When the engine showed up the throttle position sensor and oxygen sensor were smashed . . . another $200 down the drain. Buying a used engine and having it shipped from a seller you dont have a good relationship with is a questionable decision at best.

"Force-starting" the engine wouldn't do that? I mean the CEL kept blinking on and off as he was doing this and it sounded like (sorry) crap. I won't belabor the point since I don't know much about how an engine works. Call it a gut instinct based on how I what I observed before, during, and after.

[project15]

I've shot a piston out of my engine before. The rod broke sometime while I was driving and caused the engine to lose quite a bit of power, but it was still drivable. I kept driving it so that I could pull into my work parking lot. I guess while I was driving it, the broken piston shot out of the engine. After that, I wasn't able to get it started.

I wouldn't blame the brother in law for this like you seem to be doing. He just happened to be caught sitting at the wheel when the final piece snapped.

The only way he could've damaged a perfectly good engine by force starting it was if the engine was flooded with water or another liquid (fuel or oil). That can cause the rod to break as well. However, if it was already experiencing symptoms of a weakened engine, but still running, I doubt that this was the case.

[project15]

I also say fix it. The $2500 sounds reasonable, but definitely get other quotes. You shouldn't necessarily need to tow it to different shops, just tell them that you need an engine replaced. If they give you a better quote, bring it to them. If they get in there during the work and find that the job isn't as big as originally thought, then you'll save some money too.

[elessar78]

I posted this question verbatim in here and in another (NFL related) forum. The responses here are predominantly to repair the car. While the other was 50/50... fix it or buy a more expensive one.