saw a family member's check today

[pikey412]

It is the goal of everyone who has a job to make as much money doing as little as possible. Shame on everyone ITT who thinks he is making too much money. If someone offered you more money than your job was worth, would you turn it down out of principle? You'd be legally insane if you did.

In the words of Jim Calhoun, "NOT A DIME BACK."

[Snave]

What do you mean by skill? I highly doubt a plumber or carpenter could put together a multi-million dollar Marketing plan or create a computer program that can drive a billion dollar broadcast company's ad revenue system.

Thank god my college degree has saved me from a life of standing on my feet all day. I'll gladly pay a plumber with my hard earned $ to get his hands dirty. I just couldn't ruin my weekly manicure!

Got a family member that has been a plumber for many, many years... ever since he got out of college with his business degree. He realized he could make a lot more money doing that. He is a one-man show and his business is just him. He does extremely well. That is if you consider a couple hundred grand a good year. He might have lost some of the polish from his business degree and probably can no longer put together a multi-million dollar marketing plan, but he does OK balancing his multi-million dollar retirement fund.

[Goldy1]

I guess it's all relative. Line work is routine and repetitive body motions nothing highly skilled. They have skilled trades there in the factories too like carpenters and millwrights. IT sounds like a terrible way to spend a day so they should be paid well, but it just seems intersting to me that there are no other jobs really that are "unskilled" that pay near half this wage.
No I don't blame the lineworker for the industry's woes.
The prob. is finding jobs to use this skills you get in college.

[QueenOphelia]

Uh, that's kinda what Bill Gates (Microsoft -software) did without a college degree. I have a college degree and I have learned more in the field and my own research than I did in college. Being a plumber or carpenter does not mean they cannot do anything more than that.

Bill Gates went to Harvard and did eventually get a degree. (albeit an honorary one).
Does that mean you need a college degree to learn to program code? Of course not. OTOH...anyone can train to be a plumber/electrican by joining a union/trade school.

If you can't cut it in the white collar world...that's a decent way to go I suppose. I would magine the manual part...standing/squating in tight, hot/cold cramped spaces gets difficult as you age. My uncle was a plumber and his arthritis was horribly painful and eventually led to his early retirement.

[GrimJack]

I still have problems with the basic concept that $53,000 is too much pay for an assembly line worker. Then you bring in nurse - a quick check tells me that there are at least 30 categories under the rubric 'nurse' and most of them get paid more that 53k per year after 14 years.

You are making a false choice error, an error in logic, possibly a strawman error. You elevate one career and denigrate another because you think very little of what they do (or the person doing it). Also, unless the guy showed you his paystub, you are also a snoop.

[GREENBACK]

I still have problems with the basic concept that $53,000 is too much pay for an assembly line worker. Then you bring in nurse - a quick check tells me that there are at least 30 categories under the rubric 'nurse' and most of them get paid more that 53k per year after 14 years.

You are making a false choice error, an error in logic, possibly a strawman error. You elevate one career and denigrate another because you think very little of what they do (or the person doing it). Also, unless the guy showed you his paystub, you are also a snoop.

A nurse is certainly far more "skilled" than an assembly line worker and should, deservedly, make much more. If nurses had the UAW behind them they'd probably make 200k a year after a thorough job study of what they do.

[xpirtdesign]

But you have to remember your family member has been working there for 14 years or something, thats a long time. I agree maybe nurses don't really care about money who knows? Usually people like to help people out dont care about money as much.

[ActYourWage]

A nurse is certainly far more "skilled" than an assembly line worker and should, deservedly, make much more. If nurses had the UAW behind them they'd probably make 200k a year after a thorough job study of what they do.

My wife's 3 sisters are all nurses....last time I checked they make real good money now.

[Angio333]

HE makes $28.50 per hour straight time as an assembler at Chrylser. (that means unskilled on the line) He's been there about 14 years.
not a bad living for having no college huh? Just think nurses are saving your family member's lives for less right now. shame, but such is life..not fair!

...and paramedics make even less than nurses!

[wavetide]

Putting a car together is hard work, and it is not "unskilled"

When the automakers layed out their costs when they were begging for money this spring, they showed their labor cost were 10% of their costs. That's it. The rest was materials, subcontractors, debt service, etc.

Quality of American cars these days is because of engineering and material choice, not assembly. If the bean counters reduced the number of fasteners, and something falls off, it's not the fault of the poor guy bolting the car together.

This is flawed logic and I'm sure many unions have used it. These companies have a finite amount of cash to spend on producing their goods - it can be spent on the engineers and designers, or it can be on manual labor - if there isn't a correct balance because of unions then you get crappy cars that are built by overpaid manual labor, which will be uncompetitive in the global market. Why would top engineers choose to be paid less by an American auto company vs. a Japanese one? As a result, the companies may go under if unions don't give - but unions are conceding - the proof is in the pudding. I'm not saying unions are completely to blame, but they certainly deserve a portion of the blame.

Edit: This is way oversimplified but you get the picture, the cash could also go towards better material, machines, etc.

[cptacek]

When I think of a factory line worker, I think "put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. " forever. Same nut, same bolt, same wrench, same direction. How is that skilled labor? Maybe I don't know what assembly line work is really like...

[GrimJack]

When I think of a factory line worker, I think "put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. put this nut on that bolt. turn to the right. " forever. Same nut, same bolt, same wrench, same direction. How is that skilled labor? Maybe I don't know what assembly line work is really like...

Maybe you should actually do some research - might just open your eyes to the real world.

or it might not - but you will never know if you only 'think' about it.

[cptacek]

eh. Not really that interested. I'll never be in the position to do that kind of work, and I'll never be in the position to hire someone for that kind of work, so no skin off my back if some company will pay someone $28/hour to do the same thing hundreds of times in a day and consider it skilled labor. Good for that worker. Take what you can get. Sorry for the company who has to pay it, though.

Of course my only contact with it has been walking through an airplane manufacturing plant on the way to my office and watching Discover channel or "how its made" or something other show like that. Making fuselages out of composite material is definitely a skill. Welding is a skill. Painting is a skill. Being a mechanic is a skill. Lining up pre-made parts together and putting a nut on a bolt is not a skill. Riveting is not a skill. Well, maybe it is a skill...I just question having to pay $28 an hour for something that easy to learn. Just my opinion. Sorry it offended you.

I'm not saying it isn't hard work, it isn't hard on your body, it isn't hot, it isn't cold in the winter, you don't pinch your fingers, it isn't dangerous, etc., btw. I'm sure it can be brutally difficult. But I don't confuse a job that is hard on the workers with a job that requires skilled labor.

[whitestripe]

What do you mean by skill? I highly doubt a plumber or carpenter could put together a multi-million dollar Marketing plan or create a computer program that can drive a billion dollar broadcast company's ad revenue system.

Thank god my college degree has saved me from a life of standing on my feet all day. I'll gladly pay a plumber with my hard earned $ to get his hands dirty. I just couldn't ruin my weekly manicure!

you make me want to vomit.

[GrimJack]

you make me want to vomit.

What about that post made you want to vomit?