Why do people insist that they can't save anything?

[SacredFaerie]

If you want to get traction towards getting out of debt and saving for the future, you will have to live on less than you make, at all times.

To some this may mean completely changing their lifestyle, lowering their housing costs, transportation costs, entertainment costs etc. Some can use future raises for debt reduction and investing only.

To get a clearer picture, I recommend reading The Total Money Makeover by Dave Ramsey and The Automatic Millionaire by David Bach.

Getting yourself into a position to save first while living on less than you earn is the key to winning with money.

Look I don't know who you are but I do notice your final, concrete statements about what people HAVE to do. You're not the end all be all.

Here is your problem. If you wait until you have "extra" to save, you'll likely never save, because there is never any extra. You need to save first. Perhaps you've heard the expression, "Pay yourself first." Even if it is just putting $5/paycheck into the bank, you need to get in the habit of saving something each time you receive money before paying any bills or doing any other spending. Ideally, you need to work up to living on 80% of your income and saving 20%. Don't expect to start there, though. It took us years to hit the 20% level after first paying off 2 cars and over 100K in student loan debt.

If I did that one of my bills would have to suffer. I can do that but I will end up pulling it right back out. In order to get my credit to where I can get a mortgage and a different car (drive a two door need a four door) I'm trying to get rid of the Capital One debt ASAP. I've posted the whole basic outlook in another thread. (The one you asked me about it in.)

[maat55]

[QUOTE]

Look I don't know who you are but I do notice your final, concrete statements about what people HAVE to do. You're not the end all be all.

I'm just a guy who has been where you are. The advice I gave works if done. If you do not like it, continue doing what has worked for you.

[ScrimpAndSave]

I think this is a perfect example of my first reaction when I first saw this thread. I know plenty of people my age that I work with making around 50K but can save NOTHING. This is basically because they are in debt up to their eyeballs and are stuggling to only make the minimum monthly payments on credit cards. In order for them to save even a few dollars, they would have to either be behind on their credit card payments, or not pay utilities.

I think there comes a point when someone is living so high above their means (and using credit cards to do so) that they no longer have any liquid cash. Everything from their paychecks are already accounted for (bills)...and the only way they can save is if they choose to to behind on payments.

So yes, it is totally possible.

I don't think Maat is trying to sound like he is being the "be all end all". He's just stating a fact...and I think that the truth sometimes hurts.

[SacredFaerie]

I think this is a perfect example of my first reaction when I first saw this thread. I know plenty of people my age that I work with making around 50K but can save NOTHING. This is basically because they are in debt up to their eyeballs and are stuggling to only make the minimum monthly payments on credit cards. In order for them to save even a few dollars, they would have to either be behind on their credit card payments, or not pay utilities.

I think there comes a point when someone is living so high above their means (and using credit cards to do so) that they no longer have any liquid cash. Everything from their paychecks are already accounted for (bills)...and the only way they can save is if they choose to to behind on payments.

So yes, it is totally possible.

I don't think Maat is trying to sound like he is being the "be all end all". He's just stating a fact...and I think that the truth sometimes hurts.

I know the truth of my situation. I've stated it actually. I stay away from using my cards unless I have some kind of emergency (something breaks, one of the kids needs something blah blah blah). I wasn't always that way but I'm young and young people make mistakes. I know the error of my ways now and I don't continue the same bad spending habits anymore. I don't know it just seems logical that in order to start living within my means I need to eliminate some of my bills. Saving money and continuing to go further into debt doesn't make much sense. Once I eliminate the cc bill, that money will go into savings. I'm not there yet.

And based on some of the responses of Maat's I saw I went back and read some of his other responses.......yeah.

[SnoopyCool]

I bounced back and forth on getting gazelle intense on knocking out debt and saving 3-6 months income. I wanted all of my debt gone ASAP (and still do) and wanted a cushion. Now that we are jobless, I'm glad I mostly sided on savings, as we've needed that cushion.

I say save, baby!

[disneysteve]

If I did that one of my bills would have to suffer. I can do that but I will end up pulling it right back out. In order to get my credit to where I can get a mortgage and a different car (drive a two door need a four door) I'm trying to get rid of the Capital One debt ASAP. I've posted the whole basic outlook in another thread. (The one you asked me about it in.)

I posted here before I read your details on the other thread. I posted a response there.

Your situation is impossible to resolve as is. Your expenses are way too high for your income. You need to make some drastic changes to fix what is going on. I agree that saving even $5/check won't work for you until you slash expenses and boost income. I wish you luck.

[cptacek]

There's only 2 reasons that you can't save money.

1. You don't want to.
2. You can't.

Eh. I don't know. I think sometimes that being overwhelmed and emotional can hinder savings much more than your brain does. I was in this situation last week. We settled up with someone who we owed money to and he owed money to us (for farm work each did for the other), so we had to figure out what the final amount was. We ended up owing him, and his wife wants us to pay by 12/31, so it can be in this tax year.

I couldn't think for 2 days. All I could see was that number staring up at me. When I came home from that meeting, I started crying and saying "put this on ebay" and "put that in the classifieds" and "can we take my Christmas present back?" It actually took me 4 days to sort it all out in my head, and now we have a plan. We might not pay all of it back by 12/31, but most of it will be.

[bjl584]

I know several people that not only insist that they can't save money, they seem to have no interest in doing so. Even though they are full of stress, they still seem perfectly content living paycheck to paycheck. It doesn't make any sense to me at all. a good friend of mine is currently having major marriage problems that started over money issues. At no point when I was talking with him about it did he even hint at the possibility of getting their finances in order. In fact, all that he did talk about was spending a bunch of money on the New Years Eve party that he is hosting at his house.

[veronak]

I think it's because people (my self included) do not want to give up anything. Take my sister she loses her 3bd 2 bath home and have to move rather than getting a smaller place she gets a 3bd 2 bath apartment(living by herself because her and my BIL separated and her kids moved out, both boys who could have shared a room) and every month her rent money is late. Now she has satellite and paying for a receiver for 3 rooms rather than just one

[skylovessea]

It's their maturity level. Only a mature person, can say no to wants in an effort to save. Just my opinion.

I disagree. I have trouble saving money and I'm more level headed and mature than most. I don't blame it on anything but myself and my problems. I have ADD and it has negatively affected me in so many aspects of my life.

Maturity often has a lot to do with it but there are so many factors that narrowing it down to only this doesn't seem accurate.

[veronak]

I agree that maturity plays a role but there are often many other factors

[vole]

There's another side that no one has addressed:

It's better not to have savings.

I saved and had to pay full cost for summer camps for my two kids.

I saved all my life and then had to pay full tuition for both my kids.

I saved and now face the possibility of having to use my savings for medical care.

Others who earned as much as I did, but didn't save, got financial help for all these expenses.

How about all those people who bought houses they couldn't afford and made profits as real estate values went up.

And now that the party is over, there are efforts to refinance for those who can't pay their mortgage. Reward those who didn't save and overspent.

And what happened to my savings? Almost 1/2 wiped out as a result of fraud, abuses, and criminal activity of banks, corporations, insurance companies, and investment houses.

Our society rewards those who don't save and penalizes those who do adn who try to live within their means.

Color me bitter.

[disneysteve]

There's another side that no one has addressed:

It's better not to have savings.

I saved and had to pay full cost for summer camps for my two kids.

I saved all my life and then had to pay full tuition for both my kids.

I saved and now face the possibility of having to use my savings for medical care.

Others who earned as much as I did, but didn't save, got financial help for all these expenses.

Was the only criteria for summer camp assistance how much you had in savings? Or did they also look at how much you earned?

As for using your savings for medical care, do you really think that folks on Medicaid get the same level of care as folks with private insurance and/or paying cash for medical services?

[vole]

Quote:

Originally posted by disneysteve
As for using your savings for medical care, do you really think that folks on Medicaid get the same level of care as folks with private insurance and/or paying cash for medical services?

The summer camp looked at income and expenses. Since I try to save, my expenses were lower than others and no assistance.

With recent medical problems, I see that I'm sitting in the same waiting room and seeing the same doctors, and in the same hospital room as those on Medicaid.

For that matter, very few people are getting good medical care these days, insurance or not. Call and you get voice mail, doctor can't see you until nexe week, and then it's not the doctor but nurse practitioner or physician assistant who takes care of you. Call after hours and instructions are to go to the hospital if it's an emergency. Make your own decision if something can wait.

Only the very rich who pay privately get "boutique" medicine.

[disneysteve]

The summer camp looked at income and expenses. Since I try to save, my expenses were lower than others and no assistance.

That's certainly a flawed system that rewards the irresponsible. Drive a BMW, get assistance. Drive a Chevy, get nothing. I'd be writing a nasty letter to the folks that administer the assistance if I were in that situation.

With recent medical problems, I see that I'm sitting in the same waiting room and seeing the same doctors, and in the same hospital room as those on Medicaid.

For that matter, very few people are getting good medical care these days, insurance or not. Call and you get voice mail, doctor can't see you until nexe week, and then it's not the doctor but nurse practitioner or physician assistant who takes care of you. Call after hours and instructions are to go to the hospital if it's an emergency. Make your own decision if something can wait.

In case you didn't know, I'm a family practice physician. I would definitely disagree with your assessment here. In fact, I recently had something published on just this very topic.

Just because you are sitting in the same waiting room and seeing the same doctor as the Medicaid patients does not mean that you are getting the same level of care. Why? Your private insurance has a better drug formulary than the Medicaid plan so your doctor has more options when choosing what to prescribe for you. Your private insurance is accepted by more specialists and facilities so your doctor has more options when choosing where to refer you for additional treatment or testing. You probably have a vehicle and the means to get around to doctor appointments, medical tests, pharmacies to pick up your prescriptions, etc. The Medicaid patient next to you may have no means with which to do what the doctor orders. If he has no car, he may not be able to get to the specialist or go for the x-ray. The doctor may phone in a prescription and the Medicaid patient may never pick it up or not do so for a week or two after the visit when somebody is finally able to give him a ride, but by which time his condition has worsened.

As for access to the doctor, that is a very common and very valid complaint. My advice is if you don't feel you have adequate access to your doctor, get yourself a new doctor. If you call my office, a human being answers and chances are she knows you since 2 of my 3 front desk people have worked in the practice for more than 10 years. If you are sick, you will be offered an appointment within 24 hours. If you are just calling to schedule a routine check-up, it may be up to 2 weeks or so but rarely more than that unless you are picky about the appointment time (need an evening, need a Friday afternoon, etc.).

I think there is a tendency for patients to place unreasonable demands on their doctors but fail to place reasonable demands. Being able to see your doctor when you are sick is a reasonable demand. Being able to speak to a human when you call is a reasonable demand. If more patients made those demands, perhaps more doctors would change the way they do things.