Good news on gas prices

[disneysteve]

Gas dropped another 8 cents here yesterday, from $3.37 on Sunday to $3.29.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Gas prices in my locale are 30% higher now than this time last year, so I do not feel totally relieved. We're at an average of $3.44 this morning, though one station close to me is $3.36.

[Seeker]

And gasoline prices here are $3.93 per gallon and the cheapest unleaded gas at Valero (ie. Mobile, Exxon, Chevron, are all more expensive).

[Ima saver]

The lowest gas price I have seen is $3.59 for regular. It helps my husband cause he is building a house in another state. It does not affect me that much. I filled up yesterday for less than $12 (paying $3.89 a gallon)

[Aleta]

Another point to consider is that when you switch a paid for car for a newer one hybrid that your car insurance will also go up. I don't see the savings at all. Who knows what they will come out with in the future to replace the hybrid at a lower cost.

I can remember how expensive microwaves were when they first hit the shelves and now they're affordable.

[Caoineag]

We definitely aren't dropping as fast. I was impressed to see $3.77 the other day. That said, gas was never my issue (I ride the bus).

[feh]

If you drive the average 12,000 miles/year and get 15mpg vs. 25mpg, at $4.00/gallon, you'd save about $107/month on fuel. Sounds good, but if you went from no car payments to a monthly payment with interest and probably higher insurance rates, did you really save any money?

Of course, saving money is only one of the reasons to use less gas. As a nation we need to use less; for national security, for the environment. The days of cheap oil are over. Supply will be constant or slowly decline; demand will only rise for the foreseeable future.

I wish the price was still over $4, personally. That seemed to be the magic number that finally started to get people to change their habits. I feel bad for low-income folks and how the high price of oil has fueled inflation in general, but I certainly don't feel bad for the folks driving SUVs and trucks (with 0 passengers and no cargo) 400+ miles per week.

[disneysteve]

Of course, saving money is only one of the reasons to use less gas. As a nation we need to use less; for national security, for the environment. The days of cheap oil are over. Supply will be constant or slowly decline; demand will only rise for the foreseeable future.

I wish the price was still over $4, personally. That seemed to be the magic number that finally started to get people to change their habits. I feel bad for low-income folks and how the high price of oil has fueled inflation in general, but I certainly don't feel bad for the folks driving SUVs and trucks (with 0 passengers and no cargo) 400+ miles per week.

I agree, though I don't think that most people buying new cars have conservation in mind as much as they have saving money in mind. I just don't think they really think it through before they buy that new Prius.

You are right that $4 seemed to be the tippin point when people changed their habits. I've seen a few reports of how many millions fewer miles have been driven. And of course SUV and truck sales have plummeted. If someone was going to buy a new vehicle anyway, I'm all in favor of them picking an efficient one. But to sell a vehicle strictly to improve gas mileage often doesn't actually make sense financially.

[Seeker]

Another point to consider is that when you switch a paid for car for a newer one hybrid that your car insurance will also go up. I don't see the savings at all. Who knows what they will come out with in the future to replace the hybrid at a lower cost.

I can remember how expensive microwaves were when they first hit the shelves and now they're affordable.

Actually there's a hidden perk to buying a hybrid.... and that directly translates into a tax break. The deduction of a new hybrid is a couple of thousand which netted us somewhere in the 1.6k range.

And what you describe as car insurance going up when buying a new car, you know that that's so with any new car... not just hybrids. Curious to know whether there's any difference in insurance rates for like the Honda Civic Hybrid versus the Honda Civic standard gasoline powered version. Do you know Aleta? I never really checked to see if there was a variable

[disneysteve]

Curious to know whether there's any difference in insurance rates for like the Honda Civic Hybrid versus the Honda Civic standard gasoline powered version. Do you know Aleta? I never really checked to see if there was a variable

Since insurance costs are based partly on the value of the car, the hybrid would naturally cost at least a little more to insure.

[Seeker]

Oh and also, we had to replace DHs old car; it was on it's last legs.

If people replace a good working auto with a hybrid, I understand the waste.... but when you have to replace an auto because the repairs and expenses to repair keep rising and the car never really runs well afterward... then it's time to replace.

And a hybrid is a no-brainer if you can afford a new car. Used hybrids are not readily available.... when they come available, they are snapped up quickly.

There's a definite savingsin our gasoline budget. We have not noticed the budget difference with the raise in gas prices because this car consumes a good 40% less gas than DH's old.

Insurance rates are a bit up on his, but mine keep going slightly down.... net difference about $200 for six months. Not a great difference there either. But we're both careful drivers and haven't had any issues either.

[disneysteve]

a hybrid is a no-brainer if you can afford a new car.

I could buy a brand new hybrid Camry or a slightly used traditional Camry for thousands less. I don't think the hybrid would save nearly enough on fuel to make up the price differential. Even if I was buying brand new, the plain Camry MSRP is $6,000 less than the hybrid version. Go with a used traditional and save $10,000 or more compared to the new hybrid.

[Aleta]

Seeker: I was just commenting on keeping an older car versus buying a new one. Any for that matter. As Steve said it has to do with the value of a car. My car is paid off and I know if I bought a newer one that my rates would rise on insurance. It's just another little add on when you buy a car not to mention the sales tax, etc.

[Seeker]

I could buy a brand new hybrid Camry or a slightly used traditional Camry for thousands less. I don't think the hybrid would save nearly enough on fuel to make up the price differential. Even if I was buying brand new, the plain Camry MSRP is $6,000 less than the hybrid version. Go with a used traditional and save $10,000 or more compared to the new hybrid.

Okay Steve, I don't really have the numbers in front of me, so the calcs below are based on a static situation that is not real in today's terms. But as an estimate:

DH's work related gasoline savings:
50 weeks per year at 5 days per week == 250 days
Assuming 1 gallon of gas saved per day (so this is understated by quite a bit -- he saves closer to 1.5 gal per day) @ 4.00/gallon = $1000

In 5 years we'd make up the difference we negotiated with the Honda Civic (a smaller model car than the Camery and thus a smaller MSRP differential).

My hubby's old car was used 3 years before we purchased it and it was replaced at the end of 2007. Essentially an 8 year old car with over 130k miles on it -- not all of it his milage. My car is 9 years old now, and I expect it to last another 4 or 5 years (as I tend to keep a car as long as I can before replacing... and also I only drive approx 6000/year for work 4 days per week). My needs are less drastic and my work is a whole lot more flexible because of the closeness; but he "needs" a reliable and working auto... his salary depends on his being there and working.

Assuming my DH continues to maintain and get the reliability of mileage and worth from this car for 8 years, we should see a meeting of expenses slightly more than half way through it's life -- again JUST based on current gasoline costs.

I am not including the tax rebate we got from buying hybrid. I am not considering the rise and fall of the price of gasoline since I really cannot say or control any of that. And I'm still understanting the gallon savings by probably half of another gallon each day; but rainy days or windy days will take up some of that savings too.

All I'm saying is that this is not a bad deal. The batteries are warrantied for 5 years or 120k miles whichever comes first. The batteries will probably need to be replaced at some point 3 or 4 years because the reality of the situation is that the hybrid technology is not the ideal technology either.

We made a choice to help ourselves save some gasoline use long run. Our choices are our choices. We did not enter into this decision blindly... and we know that autos lose value as soon as driven off the lot. Hydro technology is better for the environment, but not cost effective yet. So we took what we could get.

The numbers need to be run for each person's situation and California will probably not see gasoling fall much more than 3.75 at the lowest. It's only likely to hoover where it's at currently ($3.93) and we are not likely to live anywhere else until we retire.

[Seeker]

Seeker: I was just commenting on keeping an older car versus buying a new one. Any for that matter. As Steve said it has to do with the value of a car. My car is paid off and I know if I bought a newer one that my rates would rise on insurance. It's just another little add on when you buy a car not to mention the sales tax, etc.

Okay fair enough. Replacing a working car with another car is always going to be more expensive than not.

Replacing a car with a hybrid is a choice for gas savings that may or may not be effective depending on each persons situation.

But all I'm trying to say is that replacing a non-reliable car with a hybrid is NOT necessarily an automatic "wrong" decision as people here are making it out to be. The numbers need to be run. And the mileage needs to be considered. And driving habits need to be considered. Even the total complete lost of the new car can become a reality.

We all gamble with everything every time we step out into the world; no one knows the future and all we can decide is what appears best for us at the moment in time when we make these decisions. Do the numbers and make your decision. Don't judge another based on the assumptions that the numbers don't make sense... until you make the calculations, you don't know anything about the reality.