Official Social Security Poll

[disneysteve]

I believe jc is only a teenager...? So, I try to be lenient. Truth is, my son has similar views too. Is this a teenage thing?

Yes, I believe he is a senior in high school. Obviously, idealism among the young is neither a new thing nor a bad thing. But with age and life experience, one learns that most issues aren't as black and white as they first appear.

[stressedmama]

I voted that I would opt out too. I also am one of those young and idealistic people. I believe this is purely fantasy and the govt would never allow for this to happen, but I do believe I could do a better job with my money I pay in then what I will recieve (I'm only 29 and do not expect the program to be worth much when I reach retirement age.) I do agree with DisneySteve that there are to many ramifications to the society at large for this to ever be a reality.

[saversaba08]

Yes, I would opt out. For those of us who hope to return to our countries someday, SS deduction is like charitable contribution anyway. You have to have worked for at least 10 years (40 quarters) to qualify for payout.

[jc3900]

Plus, what happens to the people who opt out and then become disabled? Who will pay to support them? Who will pay minor children benefits when the breadwinner of the family dies after opting out of the SS system?

Disneysteve: If SS was ended and you saw a father become disabled and a family that was now living in poverty, would you do anything about it? Why do you need to force people to give to crappy government run chariites? Why can't I choose who I give my money too?

Here is your main gripe with my plan. Under my plan about 95% of the people would have huge benefits. However there might be 5% who become disabled, can't work, etc. What about those people you might ask? Well, because those 95% of the population now has 5 times more money than they would under ss, can't they easily give their money to them?

I believe jc is only a teenager...? So, I try to be lenient. Truth is, my son has similar views too. Is this a teenage thing?

I wonder why he has similar views. Maybe because he knows that the system will crash and there will be no money left over. You do realize that SS is forecasted to crash. If it won't crash, it will reduce the benefit like crazy. Without SS he could easily be a millionaire, so what good does it do to have SS for him.

Here is another hypothetical. If we had never started ss in the first place, would it be a good program to implement now?

[disneysteve]

95% of the population now has 5 times more money

How did you arrive at "5 times more money"? If your take-home pay increased by 6%, or even 12%, that isn't 5 times more money.

Do you honestly believe that the average worker will put that extra income into savings? Various surveys have shown that up to 70% of workers currently live paycheck to paycheck. Do you really think if these folks saw their income increase a bit, they would save all that money rather than just spending even more. People typically increase their spending to match their income. Otherwise, virutally nobody would live paycheck to paycheck.

Take away the SS annuity and retirement will become a fantasy for most people. They won't ever be able to retire. I believe currently about 1/3 of retirees get 100% of their income from SS and a lot more get a significant percentage from SS. What happens to those current people and all the future people who would fall into those categories when they reach retirement age?

[Scanner]

Social Security Isn't Broken | Dollars & Sense

I know a lot of people think SSI is "broken" but here is an interesting essay on why it may not be.

A lot of people think it's broken or going broke because that's what the Pundits tell them to think.

Truthfully, if any business could declare solvency until 2041 that would be a kick-butt business. Even Microsoft can't say they'll be solvent for the next 30 years without any innovation or business changes or restructures. My guess is. . .if Microsoft remained stagnant. . .they'd be out of business, depleting cash reserves within 2-4 years.

Now. . .all this talk about SSI. . .it's Medicare that looms on the horizon. I think there's just a few years left before we have to start borrowing to pay for senior's and disabled healthcare.

Of course we want to fix SSI. . .because it doesn't need any fixing. Anyone claiming to fix it (Conservatives, George Bush) would get credit like the rooster taking credit for the dawn.

[jc3900]

All I can say to you guys is that the current system will crash! In the end I will be proven right because the numbers just don't add up. All any of these entitlement programs do is prop up a small percentage of the population while draging down the large majority. You guys living in a bubble who think that the United States is in a fine position to just keep wonderful entitlements should go look up David Walker. He used to be the comptroller general for the GAO. According to him, to fund all of our entitlements(not including any new programs like universal healthcare), we would need 8-9 trillion dollars beeing invested at treasury rates. However instead of having 8-9 trillion in the bank, we have nearly 9.5 trillion in debt. Sorry but this house of cards will fall. No one can keep spending forever. It must come to an end sometime. And I am sorry I would rather it end now with a few sacrafices, then having a full blown depression by avoiding the 800 lb gorrilla. Our fiscal crisis must be dealt with now. If you don't think immidiate and drastic action is needed now to change the fiscal cancer this country suffers from, then quite frankly you are either living in a box or a moron. Right now our countries debt is about $30,000 for every man, woman, and child in this country. Yes, the steps we must take now our bold, however the consequences that we suffer by not acting our to great to avoid.

Hopefully, you finally understand where I am coming from. Over these last few posts, it would appear that none of this is important to a lot of you. If you did care about this, I don't know how any of you could fathom keeping monsters around like medicaid, medicare, and social security.

[sweeps]

On-topic article

JC, I appreciate your gusto. But you know what, there is no crisis here. Doing what you are suggesting would in fact cause a crisis.

As Scanner pointed out, there are much bigger issues to deal with, one of which is Medicare and health care in general. This is a real crisis that needs immediate and drastic action.

[Broken Arrow]

I wonder why he has similar views.

The truth? I believe he was ill-informed. He's a good kid, and very bright too.... But my son grew up advantaged in many ways. He's very healthy; not disabled in any way. He doesn't have to rely on government programs. Yet. Hasn't started working either. Grew up in mostly decent middle-class-like Suburbia... and is still living at his mother's house.

Given his current experiences, it's understandable to me anyways, why he would hold certain views, such as wanting a more Machiavellian approach to government. (Even if Machiavelli is oft-times misinterpreted.) Because he hasn't had to suffer yet, wondering if he could ever get help from somewhere, just for a chance to get back on his feet.

And yet, the irony is that he IS in fact, very dependent on social assistance. Not the governmental type, but the familial type. After all, he didn't exactly "opt-out" from our food assistance program, our shelter assistance program, or even our short-term vehicle loan program.

Oh, but you can say, "Well, that's not a fair comparison! That's what parents are suppose to do!" And you'd be right! However, the comparison is still reasonable: Just as parents are obligated to support their children, so too are governments obligated to support their citizens!

If not, then what's the point of their existence?

Like it or not, agree or disagree, we are all "in the same boat", and we are more dependent on each other than we may even realize. But that's OK, because cooperation and support is the superior long-term strategy for survival.

We need Social Security. Period. We need to fix it, but opting-out isn't the answer.

[Scanner]

Broken Arrow:

"Any man under 35 who isn't a liberal is heartless. Any man over 35 who isn't Conservative is brainless."

- Winston Churchill

[disneysteve]

"Any man under 35 who isn't a liberal is heartless. Any man over 35 who isn't Conservative is brainless."

- Winston Churchill

What a great quote. Being 43 now, I've struggled with that conversion and Churchill nailed it. In my heart, I still support liberal causes and views, but in my brain I find myself more and more aligned with conservative policy. Finances play into that a lot, of course. As my income and personal wealth have grown, I find I benefit more from the conservative's fiscal policies, tax cuts, etc. At the same time, though, I can't help but see people of mid and lower incomes struggling due to many of the same policies.

jc3900, understand that none of us are attacking you personally, but your world view at 18 or 19 simply isn't the same as it will be when you are 30 or 40 or 50 or 60. When I was your age, I probably shared your views for the most part. As you further your education, expand your horizons, travel the world, build your fortune, etc., your positions evolve and change.

[cooliemae]

Like it or not, agree or disagree, we are all "in the same boat", and we are more dependent on each other than we may even realize. But that's OK, because cooperation and support is the superior long-term strategy for survival.

We need Social Security. Period. We need to fix it, but opting-out isn't the answer.

I agree 100%. If it wasn't for all of you paying SS my mother-in-law would be living with my wife and I right now. =)

Joking aside, my mother-in-law raised 4 children, got divorved while raising the 4th child (my wife), was laid off from her job, and has bad arthritis. The SS she receives is the only money (besides the money my wife and I send her) she has to pay the bills and support herself. If the SS dried up, I don't now what we would do!

And I'm sure we're not the only ones facing problems like this.

[Hypersion]

No,

SS is my safety net incase the !@#$ hits the fan.

[jc3900]

jc3900, understand that none of us are attacking you personally, but your world view at 18 or 19 simply isn't the same as it will be when you are 30 or 40 or 50 or 60. When I was your age, I probably shared your views for the most part. As you further your education, expand your horizons, travel the world, build your fortune, etc., your positions evolve and change.

Do you really think I will change? Oh if only you really knew me. Most likely I will get educated, see the world, experience life and become more grounded in my current beliefs.

Oh, but you can say, "Well, that's not a fair comparison! That's what parents are suppose to do!" And you'd be right! However, the comparison is still reasonable: Just as parents are obligated to support their children, so too are governments obligated to support their citizens!

Broken Arrow: You should really go see the movie 1984, I think your statement fits the movie perfectly.

Like it or not, agree or disagree, we are all "in the same boat", and we are more dependent on each other than we may even realize. But that's OK, because cooperation and support is the superior long-term strategy for survival.

We need Social Security. Period. We need to fix it, but opting-out isn't the answer.

And here is where the flaw is. I don't want to be in your boat. I want freedom to do as I wish and that is something you are not understanding.

[Daylily]

Ah to be 18 again....

NO I would not opt out of it. I pay my portion and DH pays the full portion because he is self employed. I would not opt out of it because the dollars I put in now are used to help support my parents who are currently drawing social security. I hope all the 18-year olds out there don't have a choice to opt out because I need them to help fund SS when it's MY turn to collect.