Once Considered Unthinkable, U.S. National Sales Tax Gets Fresh Look

[tripods68]

"Fair' is inherently a judgmental term. The right tends to find that sort of idea fair.

The left believes that sales taxes take a higher percentage of income from poor people. If you have to spend spend 90% of what you make with a 20% sales tax, you will be taxed at 18%. If you make a little more and can spend only half, you are being taxed at 10%. And that's even before you start getting into the relatively higher burden (10% from a poor person hurts more than 10% from a rich person).

There is no universal definition of "fair." I'm not trying to make a political judgment on the idea of a national sales tax (I've certainly heard worse ideas), I'm simply stating a fact: It is an idea that has far more traction on the right than the left.

And no, it would not eliminate tax avoision (Simpson's reference). It would simply drive it from hiding income to black market goods.

Our federal tax system is progressive system, with so much built in entitlement programs like social security, medicare, prescription drugs, now Health Care Reform to pay for and all Obama's stimulus package.

The more money you make the more you pay in taxes. The less money you make (less than $50K) you pay hardly any taxes. The middle class end up (>$50K but < than $250K) or about two-thirds of hard working taxpaying citizens pay for all these entitlements. While they are hidden underground economy like the illegal immigrants, whom by the way do not pay any taxes end up utilizing many, if not, all state resources like medical emergency services 24/7 which are then transferred in high premium costs each year to those who have insurance. California alone spend 5 Billion on illegal services. I'm not against illegals, but i believe in "fair tax".

[Inkstain82]

That's all fine, but completely separate from the issue at hand.

[tripods68]

Agreed.

Last thing i will say on this. More entitlements more taxes. It has to be paid somehow that's usually the middle class.

[red92s]

We are not EUROPE.

. . . yet.

Give Obama another couple years. We'll get there.

[Inkstain82]

thank you === and the difference between " command economy , and socialism " is what ? your attacking me does not bother me a bit ====== from the way you have replied to others as well, I can see that you are projecting the very thing you complaint about ===== I respect your opinion even if baseless , and infantile ==== good luck

.

I didn't attack you. I very specifically worded it to attack the post, not the poster. Your post was almost absurdly wrong. I make no judgments on you as a person from it.

In a socialistic economy, the government is a prominent actor in the market, but there is still a market and there are many other actors.

In a command economy, there is no market or actors, only government directives.

I'm honestly not trying to be mean, but understanding the basic terms of macroeconomics is fundamental to there being able to be any sort of conversation. For example, while I disagree with the idea that a sales tax or VAT is fair, I made sure to acknowledge both sides. As I said before, it's a subjective opinion and there's room for respect on both sides of it. But there's not much to be done about someone who says they want a sales tax and begins talking about an income tax. The post makes it appear as if they simply don't know the meaning of the words they are using.

[cptacek]

So when they say they are going to introduce a VAT, does that mean the current income tax system is going away? Or is the same old system still going to be there, but IN ADDITION we get to pay sales tax too?

[tripods68]

So when they say they are going to introduce a VAT, does that mean the current income tax system is going away? Or is the same old system still going to be there, but IN ADDITION we get to pay sales tax too?

Only the Great OBAMA knows the answer to this.

[Inkstain82]

Only the Great OBAMA knows the answer to this.

It's slightly more complicated than that, of course. Obama isn't the one calling for such a tax, and he wouldn't be implementing it by executive order even if he wanted it.

The answer is that it would be additional, at least to start. There's no way the shift from income tax to VAT tax would be made overnight.

Taxes are going to go up. It was inevitable before Obama took office, and it'd be some kind of superinevitable now.

If Americans wanted to truly go to a low-spending, low-tax approach to government, the opportunity was the 2000 election. The economy was humming, and our national defense needs were (relatively) light. It would have been the perfect time to eat some unemployment by taking a trim to the military budget, reorganizing health care (either entirely private or entirely public would be a far better solution than what we have now) and cutting social security benefits.

That ship has sailed. It may be years or decades before there is another window of opportunity, but it's definitely not today.

(to be fair, Americans *did* think they were electing a fiscal conservative in 2000.)

[geojen]

Frankly, I don't see how we can't raise taxes. You can't wage 2 wars and cut taxes. I am with DS on this one, I'd rather see a sales tax rather than an increase in income taxes. Sales taxes are transparent, easy to comprehend and somewhat in your control.

[tripods68]

It's slightly more complicated than that, of course. Obama isn't the one calling for such a tax, and he wouldn't be implementing it by executive order even if he wanted it.

The answer is that it would be additional, at least to start. There's no way the shift from income tax to VAT tax would be made overnight.

I was being sarcastic

[cptacek]

Frankly, I don't see how we can't raise taxes. You can't wage 2 wars and cut taxes. I am with DS on this one, I'd rather see a sales tax rather than an increase in income taxes. Sales taxes are transparent, easy to comprehend and somewhat in your control.

And you can't go into more debt than every president before you combined, either, without raising taxes. And you can't throw money at insolvent banks and car companies, extend unemployment benefits another 20 weeks plus add another $25 to each payment, start universal health care, continue 2 wars (including increasing troops in one and keeping troop levels the same in another), increase the omnibus spending to levels never seen before AND pass a stimulus bill that is patently designed to buy votes for 2010...Obama is going to have to own this economy at some point.

I guess my philosophy is (to rip it off from those smarter than me), if you want less of something, tax it. Apparently they want less spending in addition to less income.

[cptacek]

btw do not be surprised if you find a few posters attacking you in some other threads

I've attacked and been attacked. Apologized sometimes and stuck by my guns, too. No biggie! Although, I did take a break from here for a while because I knew I needed to calm down a bit on the political side...