We think we've got it bad...

**cicy33** · 05-21-2008, 06:15 PM

I do feel bad for them, I really do. But two things come to mind. One, if it is that bad, then stop having children. I by no means think that one should control anothers right to have children but in this case why would you have a child if you knew it would starve to death. Second, I still think that we need to have more concern for the starving and malnourished children in this country first. If we do not help our own, where are we going to be when the real troubles begin? I will not donate to another country as long as there is need here. We give to local charities around here and I know it isn't enough. Our work just collected tons of food to be given away to needy people.

**aevans1206** · 05-22-2008, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by cicy33 View Post

I do feel bad for them, I really do. But two things come to mind. One, if it is that bad, then stop having children. I by no means think that one should control anothers right to have children but in this case why would you have a child if you knew it would starve to death. Second, I still think that we need to have more concern for the starving and malnourished children in this country first. If we do not help our own, where are we going to be when the real troubles begin? I will not donate to another country as long as there is need here. We give to local charities around here and I know it isn't enough. Our work just collected tons of food to be given away to needy people.

Your response is culturally insensitive. Ethiopia is a third world country. Many of the indigenous people still live in very traditional ways there. No birth control nor any "gee honey, let's not have children. Times are tough" kinds of discussions. They still try to be hunters and foragers.

**FrugalFish** · 05-22-2008, 06:32 AM

You are right, it is so sad and so humbling. It puts our own problems into a better perspective for sure.

I use to say that I was living the good life any night I went to bed warm and not hungry- meaning just about always here in the US. Nowadays I base it on my toddler being warm and not hungry. I can't imagine the pain of a mother not being able to feed her child.

**cicy33** · 05-22-2008, 09:30 AM

Originally posted by aevans1206 View Post

Your response is culturally insensitive. Ethiopia is a third world country. Many of the indigenous people still live in very traditional ways there. No birth control nor any "gee honey, let's not have children. Times are tough" kinds of discussions. They still try to be hunters and foragers.

No, my comment is realistic. I understand they have issues but there are ways to avoid conception. And why can't they have discussions? I mean I am assuming they are relatively intelligent humans. and secondly, I see our people, starving, employment issues, can't pay light bills and yet the money goes overseas just like our jobs. I really have a big issue with this.

**aevans1206** · 05-22-2008, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by cicy33 View Post

No, my comment is realistic. I understand they have issues but there are ways to avoid conception. And why can't they have discussions? I mean I am assuming they are relatively intelligent humans. and secondly, I see our people, starving, employment issues, can't pay light bills and yet the money goes overseas just like our jobs. I really have a big issue with this.

You are discouting the fact that not all countries have the same cultural values and mores as we do in America (whose culture is based on western european values). They are extremely intelligent human beings and the fact that their culture is not based on ours does not make them UNintelligent. By the way, they have no electric, water nor gas bills. Many still live in traditional forms of housing made out of mud and straw. And many have suffered tremendous forms of racism and ethnic cleansing.

**sweeps** · 05-22-2008, 10:01 AM

A big difference in my mind is it's a matter of being hungry vs. starving to death. The poor in this country can get government aid or help from a church, food pantry, or shelter. Or worst case, they can get food out of a dumpster. (Hey, freegans do it, why can't the poor do it.)

In some other places of the world, there is no aid. Not even a dumpster. Just lots and lots of dirt.

**Joan.of.the.Arch** · 05-22-2008, 10:03 AM

Originally posted by aevans1206 View Post

Your response is culturally insensitive. Ethiopia is a third world country. Many of the indigenous people still live in very traditional ways there. No birth control nor any "gee honey, let's not have children. Times are tough" kinds of discussions. They still try to be hunters and foragers.

And this, too, is a very generalizing thing to say. Do you not know Ethipoia has cities and towns? Cities and towns are not built on hunting and gathering, I dare say. My son had swim lesson with a kid who was born in Ethiopia. His mother was a nurse. His father was an engineer who built roads. Come to the US and the former worked as a seamstress, the latter with a railroad. The Dad spoke five languages, the Mom, three. They have lived on 3 continents and I would say are a lot more cosmopolitan than I can claim to be. These are not stone age people.

**Joan.of.the.Arch** · 05-22-2008, 10:21 AM

"Second, I still think that we need to have more concern for the starving and malnourished children in this country first. If we do not help our own, where are we going to be when the real troubles begin?"-- cicy33

"I see our people, starving, employment issues, can't pay light bills and yet the money goes overseas just like our jobs." --cicy33,

Cicy33, surely you are not jealous of the starving. And you are exaggerating about starving children in the USA. There is no epidemic of starvation in the USA. You may choose to limit your charity to people who happen to share political boundaries with you, but why should you want to direct all charity of others to that same locale? Do you presently fear for your future so much so that you feel we should try to gather it all up around you? It seems like you are suggesting "hoarding" charity close to home. Sure, do as your heart tells you when it comes to helping others, but please do not try to tell others to ignore their hearts.

**aevans1206** · 05-22-2008, 10:38 AM

Originally posted by Joan.of.the.Arch View Post

And this, too, is a very generalizing thing to say. Do you not know Ethipoia has cities and towns? Cities and towns are not built on hunting and gathering, I dare say. My son had swim lesson with a kid who was born in Ethiopia. His mother was a nurse. His father was an engineer who built roads. Come to the US and the former worked as a seamstress, the latter with a railroad. The Dad spoke five languages, the Mom, three. They have lived on 3 continents and I would say are a lot more cosmopolitan than I can claim to be. These are not stone age people.

This is true, however, that segment of the population is much larger than the population able to travel three continents. The population discussed in the article are those that live in rural areas.

**Joan.of.the.Arch** · 05-22-2008, 09:29 PM

Actually they met each other in an impromptu refugee camp outside their own country and lived on three continents because they were fleeing famine and war in the late 1980's. They were lucky to find safe haven first in Italy then in the USA.

It might be easiest to think that the most horrible things happen only to rural "hunter-gatherers" whose lives were simply bound to be difficult no matter what. I am trying to make the point that starvation may be a threat in Ethiopia to all kinds of people. We don't have to picture them as totally without resources from day one to know that they and their children may not be able to get enough food to keep them alive. Who is educated enough, rich enough, or powerful enough to make the farms grow crops when there is drought?

**aevans1206** · 05-23-2008, 04:44 AM

That is absolutely true indeed. My previous comments were geared towards the fact that no one should be judgemental about people having children under those conditions. It's an unfair assessment to label their choice "stupid" considering other aspects of the situation. Many factors that go into why we have children in America are not the same factors for a large segment of the population in Ehtiopia.

**cicy33** · 05-23-2008, 09:30 AM

Why on earth would you say I am jealous of the starving????? My comment at that quote was actually the fact that many more jobs that used to be here in the US are going to third world countries cuz they can get people to work for pennies. Actually I have no political connections, friends or anything other political at all ideas. I do not think that I am exaggerating the poor or hungry here. Many of them turn to prostitution or crime to eat. Our area closed a business that put almost 1000 people out of work. Now, that may not seem much to some but to us here, that was major. This was a town that only had 10,000 people to begin with and the surrounding towns average a few thousand. Many people that I knew lost their homes and had to move to other areas and get jobs there so that they could feed their kids. and alot of them had worked at this place for over 5-10 years. so they had to pick up and start over and for some this was really hard as they were not young people. and again I will state that we need to worry more about our people here before we don't have a country anymore. I personally by the way give money to local organizations not political, like food for the food banks, xmas for children that don't have any, the red cross who helped a family member of mine when their house burned. Places like that who help our local communities. I don't have enough money to give to the organizations like I would like but I do try.

We think we've got it bad...