College a waste of time and money for kids

[sweeps]

BA, Debbie, PP, fair enough. But just to be clear, there is a difference between "forcing" and "encouraging". I am advocating the latter.

[Broken Arrow]

Didn't mean to dog-pile you, dude! For what it's worth, I do think different parents will raise their kids differently, and I don't necessarily see anything wrong with it. So, I'm not here to tell others how to raise theirs. I can only say how I'd raise mine based on who I am and what kind of kids I'm working with.

[sweeps]

No probs, BA.

Sorry, one more rant on this topic. I'm pretty moderate in my beliefs, but definitely conservative on this one. I completely disagree with the idea of letting kids do whatever "makes them happy". Work is exactly that, work. You want to have a good life? Then do what it takes to get a real job. Don't complain later that you don't have any money because your dream was being a manager at GameSpot so you could be around video games all day. When you have a good job and a lot of discretionary income, then play all the games you want in your free time. But until then don't come begging for a handout from society because you're doing a non-productive job that "made you happy". That's all.

[Broken Arrow]

I completely disagree with the idea of letting kids do whatever "makes them happy". Work is exactly that, work. You want to have a good life? Then do what it takes to get a real job. Don't complain later that you don't have any money because your dream was being a manager at GameSpot so you could be around video games all day. When you have a good job and a lot of discretionary income, then play all the games you want in your free time. But until then don't come begging for a handout from society because you're doing a non-productive job that "made you happy". That's all.

You and my dad would get along great, sweeps.

Actually, I'm with you on this one. In order to understand and appreciate real world values, you have to experience the real world. If my son decides to be a slacker, I'm charging him rent.

[Caoineag]

I don't believe in forcing a kid to go, but I do believe that going to college and getting a four year degree opens a lot of doors.

Right now, I have a job that doesn't use my bach degree BUT, and this is a big one, I beat out 3 other highly qualified non college graduates partly because of my degree. It gave me an edge they lacked.

That said, if the kid isn't interested in college then training of some sort whether through apprenticeship or trade schools should really be emphasized. I have met my classmates that didn't get any training (and I graduated in 2000), they are flipping burgers, selling christmas trees or other dead end positions.

Personally, I think parents should discuss children's options often with them long before they reach high school so they have had time to think about what they want by the time graduation comes. You better believe that my little stepbrother has discussed with me at length what he wants to do with his future. He is only in 10th grade but knows what major he wants, what type of job it can get him, what are the hottest job markets for that type of work and what he has to do to get there. If he changes his mind in midstride, thats fine, he knows what he has to do to adjust from there.

I really don't understand people who never discuss with their child what they want to do and how they are going to accomplish it because then their kid just ends up flunking out of college. All of the kids I know who flunked out, didn't know why they were at college. Thats just a waste of time and money.

[PrincessPerky]

No probs, BA.
I completely disagree with the idea of letting kids do whatever "makes them happy". Work is exactly that, work. You want to have a good life? Then do what it takes to get a real job. Don't complain later that you don't have any money because your dream was being a manager at GameSpot so you could be around video games all day.

If you are complaining than you are obviously not happy ...

I don't disagree that some folk avoid the whole picture...so I don't simplify when I speak to my kids...sure be happy, but not just happy at work, you need to be happy in your whole life...if you haven't enough for food you are not happy at dinner time!

I love my job, and Dh loves the work of his job...he just dislikes the BS part.. in truth so do I..I could do without the diapers part of my job! and the dishes, and the...you get the idea. All jobs have parts you don't like...you have to look at the whole picture before you decide on a career..not just at the money, not just at the time (some jobs require vast amounts of travel and time away from family) not just the grunt portions (all jobs have some drudge work) and so on.....Once you have found one that is mainly enjoyable, and pays enough for the bills...then you can be happy (most of the time, we all have bad days). That is what I want for my kids, be it cars, construction, Drs or lawyers.. So long as they find satisfaction...that better than happy?

[PrincessPerky]

I really don't understand people who never discuss with their child what they want to do and how they are going to accomplish it because then their kid just ends up flunking out of college. All of the kids I know who flunked out, didn't know why they were at college. Thats just a waste of time and money.

Ditto!

[sweeps]

If you are complaining than you are obviously not happy ...

No, quite happy, thanks for your concern.

My complaint is this troubling trend of not giving young adults a taste of reality and making sure they realize that they are expected to be productive and responsible, not just "happy".

(Man, do I sound old... BA, can I have your dad's phone number, maybe we'll have a chat. )

[DebbieL]

To add to what I said earlier, I think college is a great thing and a real asset to your earning potential - but not before you're ready and want it, kwim? If the kid isn't ready, then it is wasting time and money.

[PrincessPerky]

No, quite happy, thanks for your concern.

My complaint is this troubling trend of not giving young adults a taste of reality and making sure they realize that they are expected to be productive and responsible, not just "happy".

(Man, do I sound old... BA, can I have your dad's phone number, maybe we'll have a chat. )

heh, didn't mean you personally, meant the fellow working at game spot who needs help..

And yeah..happy is a bit of a wrong term..

[DebbieL]

I just now skimmed the article, and I have to say he's being really extreme. $200-$400K for a college degree? Why would it have to be so expensive? Maybe if you are paying for room and board at the college as well as tuition, but that still sounds high to me. I just go to a community college in my city. I'll pay around $16K for my 4 year degree (this will be including the cost of all texts and extra materials needed). My college tuition also covers extended medical/dental plan and a bus pass for the entire 4 years. He seems really negative. I also disagree when he says that the advantage of a degree would never make up for the $200-$400k investment. That really depends on the degree. What about a doctor? I am working towards a degree in a highly paid profession (and certainly not paying that much for it). My earning potential will be at least double what it is now once I have my credential and it will go up more with experience.

[Caoineag]

I agree that the guy in the article was really negative about college. My education probably cost me $40k if you include lost wages and I will have made up that difference in 4 years (only 1 more to go). Not to mention that my boss gives me large raises because my qualifications could land me a job almost anywhere. For me at least, college made a huge difference.

[cptacek]

A better example would be a co-worker of mine. He had a hard time working on his college degree. When he complained to his father about the work, his father calmly got him a job at the factory he works at. After about six months of back-breaking manual labor, he realized the true value of higher education, went back, and finished his degree.

When I was in junior high a hail storm went through a town by where we lived. My dad and uncle decided to become roofers for a summer, and we got to (? had to, really) help. Ugh. Hot. Sweaty. Long hours. Heavy heavy heavy packs of shingles that we couldn't even lift by ourselves. My three sisters and I and my two (girl) cousins with our dads. We did that until we got to escape and go to school! We loved August when we could start v-ball practice and then school! And when it was time to go to college, all of us went and all of us graduated with good grades. Cause we WERE NOT going to be shinglers!

[jodi]

In middle school, I wanted to be archaeologist.
In high school and through my first year of college, I was going to be a math teacher.
After freshman year of college, I switched my major to sociology to go into social work after one particularly bad teacher and a semester of bad math classes (courtesy of aforementioned teacher).
I worked in social work for several years (learning everything, and I mean everything I needed to know on the job). I quit and sold real estate for a few years. I went back to social work in a state job.
I'm 30 years old, am dissatisfied with my work, and have no idea what I really want to do. I also still have $5k in student loan debt, having paid off over $10k so far.

Yeah, I can see the author's point. I was never forced to go to college. I always wanted to go and don't regret it, but the only real benefit it gave me was a piece of paper that allowed me to get a decent job. It's a very real benefit, but I didn't learn much that was applicable in real life. It's almost as if I had to 'play the game' to get a good job, even though I didn't learn how to actually perform my job. I'm a huge advocate of further education, but that can be a trade school, community college, military, advanced training, etc. Four year colleges are great for committed 18 year olds who know definitely what they want to do with their lives - but I don't think too many of us fell into that category. How many people switch majors, or switch careers in their lives? A lot.
And, of course, there are always going to be people (thankfully) that are just not cut out for college. My brother is one of the smartest people I know, but barely graduated. He has worked the family farm since he was a young teenager and is still doing it today. My BIL is also incredibly intelligent, but maybe too much so for a 'traditional' classroom - he also nearly didn't graduate because he was too BORED. College is great, but simply not for everyone.

[Broken Arrow]

(Man, do I sound old... BA, can I have your dad's phone number, maybe we'll have a chat. )

This is a whole 'nuther can of worms, but the old man needs help!

He's planning to retire early, but recently decided to put up to 50% of his retirement nest egg into stock picking! Well, that in itself may not be total disaster, but it seems to have the makings of it! He bought Citigroup and Home Depot back in 2007. He said he's planning to pick a 3rd soon, but geez....

The other 50%... actively managed by a lesser brokerage that's charging them fees out the wazoo. And they don't even know what their money is invested in... just "mutual funds".

My parents are good people, but they're kind of set in their ways... and they don't like listening to me for some reason. But that's probably yet another can of worms there, for some other time.

Did I mention that they're planning to retire maybe next year?

My brother is one of the smartest people I know, but barely graduated. He has worked the family farm since he was a young teenager and is still doing it today. My BIL is also incredibly intelligent, but maybe too much so for a 'traditional' classroom - he also nearly didn't graduate because he was too BORED. College is great, but simply not for everyone.

This is a very interesting line of thought, because having been in the honors program has placed me in the same room with a lot of smart people who were like that, in high school and college. It was very interesting that the smartest people I knew back then never put forth much effort or interest in the work at hand. They were always off doing something much more interesting and esoteric.

For example, back in high school when school computers were just replacing electric typewriters. We had a homework project to dabble with drawing lines and dots on these new-fangled school computers. I thought I was kind of a hot shot when I wrote a fractal-like algorithm that can draw the still pictures of a simple tree. Got an 'A' for the project by the way.

Then, when I looked over to the other computers, one of these whiz kids wrote a program that generated a near real-time MOVING rendering of a doughnut that can turn into a coffee cup! I kid you not! To this day, this is still something I don't know how to do!

Another, oddly enough, ditched being a physicist (but aced AP Physics) and decided to go into Hollywood. Scary thing is I've seen his name pop up several times on Nickelodean (but I'm not exactly sure that's him).

Another one, who sat next to me in orchestra went on to tour with the Austrian Philharmonic... oh and is a Biomolecular engineer now.

I think another went to be a Dean of a private college....

I also know a couple of crack programmers in college that went on to join Red Storm and now Ubisoft, who bought them out. Yet a couple more with Red Hat Corp.

And don't even get me started with my cousins who are doctors, lawyers, and accountants. Sigh. I don't think I'm dumb, but sometimes, I wish I could be smart like that. Even if it's just for a few days, just to see what it's like.

Where was I? Oh, I'm just rambling, but yeah, I completely understand how that the cookie-cutter method of public schooling can be a hindrance sometimes. I wouldn't go so far as to say it's a waste of time, but our kids went to Montessori schools whenever they were available to us. They're in public schools right now, but fortunately, they are good ones.