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Investing and chess

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  • Investing and chess

    Someone over at the Scottrade messageboard posted this (teamwhiskers) and I thought I would share:

    "This is an interesting I found about the game of Chess. Much of this can be related to trading and the way you look at it..

    Beginner chess mistakes to avoid Becoming a great chess player is a journey. And as is the case with any truly great game, understanding the rules is just the first step.
    The second, we'd venture to say, is being able to identify, understand, and fix your mistakes. Fortunately, there are a few elementary (and easily corrected) blunders that nearly all beginner players fall into at some point. Dodge them, and grand mastery -- or, at any rate, a much better standard of play -- is just around the corner.
    Here are seven of the most common.

    Hands off the queen
    Let's be honest about it: queens kick ass. Zooming about the board, owning up the place, they're the chess equivalent of a Sherman tank...except Sherman tanks generally can't be taken out by the puniest of footsoldiers.
    Not so your queen. She's a powerful asset, but vulnerable, and you'll hear it from every seasoned chess pro on the planet: one of the most common errors made by beginner players is bringing her out too soon. Resist the urge to run rampant with her majesty.

    Avoid pointless exchanges
    In economics, there's a concept called the sunk cost fallacy. Basically, it says that once you've lost money on a failed venture, it's gone, and you should think carefully before adding more capital in the hope of getting back your starting stake.
    The same applies to lost chess pieces. Is it really worth risking a valuable bishop or knight to get revenge for a taken pawn? Rarely. Don't let your emotions get the better of you. If you lost a piece, let it go and move on.

    Don't rush
    Chances are you're not playing a timed game. So what's the hurry?
    Even if you're confident in your next few moves, take a few minutes to sit back and smell the roses. Have you missed anything crucial? What's your opponent up to? Is there a better play than the course you're currently on? When you rush, you make mistakes. So don't.

    Don't pawn off your pawns
    The cannon fodder of the chess world, these disposable pieces exist purely to be thrown into a meat grinder of tit-for-tat death in the middle of the board, and if you have any left by turn 15, you're not playing aggressively enough. Right?
    Wrong. The pawn might be the least important piece in the game, but that's not the same thing as being unimportant. Acting together with other pieces, pawns are powerful lines of defense, guards, and end-game blockers -- not to mention if you get one to the far end of the board, suddenly you're playing with two queens. Don't underestimate their power, and don't throw them away without good reason.

    Castling: not just for Harold and Kumar
    Though it's difficult to hand down blanket rules for chess strategy, here's one that comes close: castling, in general, is rarely a bad idea. You get to tuck the king in towards an edge, where he's safer -- and you get to yoink a powerful rook towards the middle of the board, where he's more useful. If in doubt, do it.

    If it looks too good to be true...
    You know the rest. Your opponent leaves a high-value piece apparently undefended. An opportunity to get one over on him? Maybe.
    But before you rush to capitalize on his mistake, think carefully. Could this be a deliberate gambit? Will plucking that tempting prize leave you in a worse position than before? Does your enemy's carefree grin conceal a cunning trap in the works? Only you can answer that -- but there are probably better ways of doing so than putting your head in the lion's mouth.

    Avoid tunnel vision
    It's easy to concentrate so tightly on one crucial area of the board that you ignore important developments in others. Chess's many fast-moving pieces can appear out of nowhere, and if you're not getting a broad enough view of the action, you risk being caught napping. Work on seeing the whole board."

  • #2
    I'd consider myself a good chess player in my own right, but sorry the analogies are far fetched and stretches. At the very least, they could be explained better. I'm not sure if the point is that the different pieces have equivalents in the investing world? What's a queen? Stock in Berkshire? I don't understand why I would bring it out/early or late? If I'm holding Berkshire, I'm holding onto that and just watching it grow--I don't see anything analogous to chess.

    I think people always try to compare other things to chess. I coach soccer and the comparison invariably comes up, I understand both games in depth but they are rarely good.

    Principles of investing:
    Identify undervalued equities and hold onto them. Pawns are undervalued pieces and knowing how to play them, maneuver them, makes the difference in the end game.

    Diversify: I don't think there's a chess equivalent of this.

    Equities produce better returns than bonds:??

    Active trading does not outperform the market as a whole over a long period of time: ??

    The one lesson that I take from years of studying chess is: Learn the game deeply and it becomes more rewarding and fruitful. Whether it's chess, soccer, or investing. . . know the ins and outs and you'll get more out of the experience.

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    • #3
      I get the "chess" piece of the post. I don't see the "investing and" piece.

      Other than mentioning the word trading in the 1st sentence, and mentioning a sunk cost (which doesn't really apply to trading much), where is the investing in the post?

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      • #4
        Its a blog post about ****ing chess! Why would you expect to see anything specific about investing, or p/e ratios or competitive advantages?

        Are there not whole books about emotion and investing? I guess that's kinda what I was going for but i'm sorry I brought it up. Next time i'll remember to throw a schedule 14d .pdf on instead

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        • #5
          Sorry, MNG. It was in the investing section--I was looking for the connections. I missed the point, I apologize.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
            Its a blog post about ****ing chess! Why would you expect to see anything specific about investing, or p/e ratios or competitive advantages?
            Please read your thread title again, and see the chosen section you posted in.

            Your title implies two topics, one of which is investing. So I thought it would be about the similarities between chess and investing, but it wasn't. Thought maybe you let off a portion of the original post or something.

            Next time, just say "Beginner's chess mistakes" and post in general discussion.

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            • #7
              Originally posted by jpg7n16 View Post
              Please read your thread title again, and see the chosen section you posted in.

              Your title implies two topics, one of which is investing. So I thought it would be about the similarities between chess and investing, but it wasn't. Thought maybe you let off a portion of the original post or something.

              Next time, just say "Beginner's chess mistakes" and post in general discussion.
              Yeah it is about investing, your brain just needs to make the connection. Apparently since there is no quantifiable data your robot brain cannot compute or something.

              "If it looks to good to be true"- Hmmm maybe linkedin or the 1990s

              "Dont Rush"- Due dilligence

              "Avoid tunnel vision"- Dont watch the ticker every day


              Sorry jpg I forgot you knew everything

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              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
                Yeah it is about investing, your brain just needs to make the connection. Apparently since there is no quantifiable data your robot brain cannot compute or something.
                ... Or that you just made a vague reference that doesn't really apply that well to investing.

                "Investing is like a bowl of fruit. I won't tell you why. And I'll insult you if you ask."

                And though you insulted me personally about my response, I wasn't the only one who noticed that it wasn't clear what you meant.
                "If it looks to good to be true"- Hmmm maybe linkedin or the 1990s
                Or Google's IPO at $100 (was over $400 less than a year later and is now over $600), or early 2009 when the market was trading at under $7,000 (now over $12,000). In investing, an abnormal price may indicate a good opportunity. Do your research to confirm.

                "Avoid tunnel vision"- Dont watch the ticker every day
                Focus on your goals and your asset allocation, and don't be swayed by all that goes on in the market. In fact, tunnel vision may be useful to many people.

                "Dont Rush"- Due dilligence
                This one I agree with. Although I could post "Don't Delay" and it make as much sense.

                Your post as a whole however wasn't clear (to us anyways). That's all we're saying.

                If you included your commentary in the 1st post, your post would have made more sense.

                Sorry jpg I forgot you knew everything
                I realize I often make that claim about myself, as I did in this thread, though I can't seem to find that quote. Can you? All I can seem to find is me and elessar asking questions to clarify what you meant. Then you cussing about how obvious it should have been, then a smartass reply from me to your question "why did you expect to see anything specific about investing in my post called 'Investing and Chess'??"

                Thankfully for the posters I reply to, I like to answer questions which I have an idea what the answer is. So when you see me post an answer, I generally believe it's the correct one. When I don't know the answer, I typically just don't reply. But I'll make a point from here on out to just reply "I don't know. Good luck with that." Hopefully, people will value that added contribution to the forums.


                When a comedian makes a joke and the audience doesn't get it, he shouldn't blame, cuss at, and insult the audience - he should make the joke better next time.

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                • #9
                  There's a few shots being fired across the bow here. Please watch the personal attacks.
                  Brian

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                  • #10
                    Well that didn't very well....

                    Sorry guys.

                    I guess i'll hold up on my next post which was going to be "Business and Sun Tzu's The Art of War"

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
                      Well that didn't very well....

                      Sorry guys.

                      I guess i'll hold up on my next post which was going to be "Business and Sun Tzu's The Art of War"
                      I'd actually like to read that. Post it with a link in the News and Articles subforum.
                      Brian

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bjl584 View Post
                        I'd actually like to read that. Post it with a link in the News and Articles subforum.
                        Lol it was joke based on the warm reception I got from this thread, but I would like to read it too. I am sure there is something out there about it. Ill see if I can't dig anything up.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr Nice Guy View Post
                          Lol it was joke based on the warm reception I got from this thread, but I would like to read it too. I am sure there is something out there about it. Ill see if I can't dig anything up.
                          I was actually looking at picking up that book. There is a reference to it in the movie Wallstreet. One of my favorite 80's flicks.
                          Brian

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bjl584 View Post
                            I was actually looking at picking up that book. There is a reference to it in the movie Wallstreet. One of my favorite 80's flicks.
                            Two references actually, first from gordon, then one from bud.

                            I just googled sun tzu and business and got a lot of hits. Should be some goods reads in there I imagine...

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