Don't buy your hybrid car yet

[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Your links are to 5+ year-old and 7+ year-old studies and references which don't apply anymore.

But they’ve been born out in reality in the private sector.

I hereby debunk the debunkers.

But you haven’t.

Your wholesale price of ethanol ($0.90) is wrong as I've already explained clearly.

A)It’s not MY “wholesale price of ethanol”

B) It’s not “wrong”, as that’s the quoted price.

C) Your so-called explanation is nonsense.

Give me another bid or show us the evidence

Sure.

From a report in the ‘Farm Bureau News’ of about a year ago, when the wholesale price of ethanol was even slightly cheaper:

“By any standard, ethanol is a bargain. Yet, you have to wonder why ethanol is so hard to find at the pump in some regions, especially when wholesale ethanol prices are $1.20 per gallon, compared to $1.70 for wholesale gasoline. When the federal ethanol tax credit of 52 cents is factored in, wholesale ethanol prices drop to about 70 cents per gallon. That’s nearly $1 less than the wholesale price of gasoline.”

FBN

The ball is in your court.

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[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

VJW, if you read the link you gave closely, most models precede with "Selected"

That merely refers to the model having a particular engine.

and I only count three models that are fully compatible with E85.

I count two dozen.

I don't buy that there are 5 million flexfuel vehicles on the road...

Then how many are there ?

but even if that number is correct, that only represent about 2.5% of cars in the US (204 million cars in the US).

You’re not comprehending the big picture. We only import 25% of our oil from the Middle-East. So shifting even 5% of our vehicles over to an alternative fuel would have an impact, and 10% or more would have a large impact.

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[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Thats the national standard in Brazil. Otherwise they are SOL.

That’s why it worked. The government MANDATED that every gas station have at least one ethanol pump, and MANDATED that every auto manufacturer offer flex-fuel vehicles in their car lines, or they could not sell vehicles in the country. Then the market driven consumers chose the cheaper alternative, leading to more than 70% of the vehicles being sold in Brazil being Flex-fuel, and the nation being free from imported oil by the end of this year.

“Voluntary” does not work with multi-national corporations.

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[pyotr]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

But they’ve been born out in reality in the private sector.

Show us one example where it's been "born" out in the private sector V.

But you haven’t.

But I have

A)It’s not MY “wholesale price of ethanol”. B) It’s not “wrong”, as that’s the quoted price. C) Your so-called explanation is nonsense.

A) it is your wholesale price - you've not provided any links or evidence that it's anybody else's researched or derived number - you pulled it out of your butt.
B) It is therefore "wrong" see A above
C)Your so-called explanation is therefore "nonsense."

From a report in the ‘Farm Bureau News’ of about a year ago, when the wholesale price of ethanol was even slightly cheaper:

- see my discussion above referring to biased opinions. Do you not see the connection between farmers and the corn/ethanol lobby? If I send you links to the oil industry's opinions on the ethanol fuels - do you think you'll take it seriously? Why do you then think anyone would take the "Farm Bureau News" opinions seriously in this debate?
I recommend you go the library and look up the article about ethanol-fuels in the Economist from last month. That's a liberal British mag with no financial ties to either side, thus a more than balanced view on the matter.

The ball is in your court.

{pyotr swoops in for a statue-of-liberty left-handed slam dunk}

[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

But I have

Apparently only in your mind.

it is your wholesale price

No, it's THE "wholesale price".

you've not provided any links or evidence that it's anybody else's researched or derived number - you pulled it out of your butt.

I provided you with TWO links. I merely chose the first few from a simple Google search.

see my discussion above referring to biased opinions. Do you not see the connection between farmers and the corn/ethanol lobby?

What does that have to do with the wholesale price of ethanol ?

How about a quote from a RightWing front group ? Would that be more comfortable for you ?

"At present the wholesale price of ethanol is 30 to 40 cents per gallon cheaper than wholesale regular unleaded gasoline. When the federal ethanol tax credit is factored in, ethanol becomes nearly $1 per gallon cheaper than the wholesale price of regular unleaded gasoline."

National Center for Policy Analysis

{pyotr swoops in for a statue-of-liberty left-handed slam dunk}

Sorry, but the Ref just flagged you for traveling.

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[pyotr]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Apparently only in your mind.

"your" meaning the gathered masses watching V's flailing argumentativeness.

No, it's THE "wholesale price".

1) the price of commodities like corn and ethanol and petroleum fluctuates daily, so what's the point of your childish insistence on a random single wholesale number from 7 years ago?
2) the wholesale price of petroleum from 7 years ago is less than $1.00, so doesn't that blow the living $h!t out of your argument?
3) consumers don't pay wholesale price anyway so why is this point the lynchpin for the ethanol argument?

I merely chose the first few from a simple Google search.

I'm glad you're putting forth such an effort

"At present the wholesale price of ethanol is 30 to 40 cents per gallon cheaper than wholesale regular unleaded gasoline. When the federal ethanol tax credit is factored in, ethanol becomes nearly $1 per gallon cheaper than the wholesale price of regular unleaded gasoline."

- you forgot to mention that this is just a viewpoint written on that website BY A FARMER (BUSTED!). Also from your own link!: "The economic impact of ethanol subsidies is negative. One report by the U.S. Agriculture department determined that every $1 spent subsidizing ethanol costs consumers more than $4." You're digging your own grave V!

Sorry, but the Ref just flagged you for traveling.

{ref recalls his errant whistle. Meanwhile, pyotr steals the ball and swoops in again this time for a tomahawk slam through the net - the ball skids violently off VW's face.}

[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Believe in whatever alternative reality you like.

I had spoken with the manager of a regional fuel distribution depot, who quoted me the price of $.90/GAL for wholesale ethanol and more than $2.00/GAL for wholesale gasoline, which have both been substantiated in the markets.

Your ignorance is too tiring for me.

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[pyotr]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Sometimes truth can be tiring to the feebleminded - please take a nap. I'll wake you when another exciting topic pops up.

[Crystallas]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Too bad Ego powered cars dont exit yet, some posters here would make for a great LeMans driver.

[VJW]

Re: Don't buy your hybrid car yet

Had an interesting phone conversation with my brother over the weekend. He told me he stopped at a gas station in South Carolina, and the price at the pump for Regular gasoline was $2.79/GAL and the price at the pump for E85 was $2.29/GAL.

Gee, I guess the station owner MUST be paying $3.00/GAL wholesale for the E85, and selling it for $2.29/GAL at the pump, and after sending the feds and the state the $.35/GAL in gas tax, racking up a $1.06/GAL LOSS on each gallon he sells.

What a concept.

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