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Have you had your flu shot?

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  • #31
    I get one every year. I got mine a little early this year because I was visiting my Mother-in-Law who is very sick. She doesn't need the flu on top of every thing else.

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    • #32
      Originally posted by msomnipotent View Post
      I don't get one every year, but I got one this year and have had a weird rash ever since. Not sure if it is a coincidence and not sure if I should bother my doctor about it, but it reminds me of the rash I had when I had fifth disease. And my daughter got sick right after getting her shot (from a different place) and just went back to school. Again, could be a coincidence. We don't normally get sick from the vaccination.
      This is a perfect example of anecdotal evidence and illusory correlation.

      (Not saying that you suffer from these fallacies, since you do get flu shots.)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
        It's not malpractice to give faulty advice. It could be malpractice when a patient suffers harm as a result of that advice if the court deems that the advice deviated from MSOC.

        If I tell a patient they don't need high blood pressure medicine and they later have a stroke, I could be held liable for that because MSOC is to treat high blood pressure with medication.

        If I tell a patient they don't need a flu shot and they later get the flu and pneumonia, I could be held liable for that because MSOC is to give the flu vaccine to all patients 6mo of age and older.

        That's the only point I was trying to make here. I'm sure your doctor believes his advice is good, but that wouldn't protect him if he got sued. I don't know how the malpractice system works in Canada though. I'm only talking about US policy.
        I understand your point of view as a physician who doesn't want to get sued, but I think this is a problem. It's hard to have an upfront conversation with a physician because they only tell you standard of care, whatever will keep them from being sued. I personally want a doctor that is upfront with pros and cons of any procedure or advice. It's my decision what I do with my body and I'm employing you as a physician to get further knowledge to make that decision. I don't only want to hear standard of care advice. Standard of care advice looks at us as though we are all exactly the same. Like a herd. We are not a herd. We are all very unique due to genetics, environment exposures, exercise, sleep, stress and food habits. And as you know there are risks and rewards to every medical procedure (including flu shots). I want a physician who will help me figure out what is wrong, preferably to the root of the problem, think outside the box, go to bat and help me research and heal my body. I don't want the standard of care prescription to cover up a symptom, if we don't know what the root of the problem is.

        DS, as a physician, you are aware in the United States we cannot sue the manufacturers of vaccines correct? It was put into law in the late 1980s. It is a direct result of those injured by vaccines suing manufacturers to the point they were going to go bankrupt and stop producing them all together. So congress has now given them complete immunity from being sued. I can sue a seatbelt manufacturer if injured, but not a vaccine manufacturer directly. I see on the news about all the car safety studies, but when I read the vaccine insert it says that vaccines have not been studied on pregnant women (yet that is now standard care) or for known carcinogens.

        I'm also curious if you as a physician are aware of the Vaccine Adverse Events Reporting System? It's a database to report vaccine reactions. It's apparently voluntary, but even my own military doctor didn't know about it.

        People ARE injured by vaccines. And most of those injured are now ex-vaxxers. Once you have been injured you don't want to receive another one. And do you blame them?! These are the people you are mad at? Because they won't get vaccinated again. We need to respect every one's right to choose what is done to their own body.

        Good health comes from eating real food, rest, hydration and exercise. Disease decline has a direct correlation to indoor plumbing (sanitation) and good nutrition. As well as understanding the need to quarantine when ill.

        Clearly, this thread has gone a bit off topic. I apologize for that. But my answer is the same I will not be getting a flu shot. It is not required that we get one.
        My other blog is Your Organized Friend.

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        • #34
          Got mine yesterday from Target.
          They give you a $5 coupon for getting one.
          Brian

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          • #35
            Just Like most ALL pharmaceuticals the "flu shot" has become a major push to get people hooked on getting one each year "repeat customers"
            The flu shot is based on the best guess of what variation of flu will occur .Last years was 20% effective. as a person who has personally lived with a severe reaction to a vaccine I am NOT getting another one EVER.
            does anyone else feel creeped out by all the pushes for vaccines for so many things that have a tiny occurrence rate??
            I find it hilarious that everyone is touting that they are "FREE" lol
            in reality you pay through your insurance or taxes if offered by a government outlet.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Smallsteps View Post
              Just Like most ALL pharmaceuticals the "flu shot" has become a major push to get people hooked on getting one each year "repeat customers"
              The flu shot is based on the best guess of what variation of flu will occur .Last years was 20% effective. as a person who has personally lived with a severe reaction to a vaccine I am NOT getting another one EVER.
              does anyone else feel creeped out by all the pushes for vaccines for so many things that have a tiny occurrence rate??
              I find it hilarious that everyone is touting that they are "FREE" lol
              in reality you pay through your insurance or taxes if offered by a government outlet.
              It's just a flu shot.
              I don't liken it to an Area 51 conspiracy.
              Yes, there is no free lunch, but even if I had no insurance (which I pay for) I would only have to pony up about $15.
              I've been getting a flu shot every year for the past 8 years and haven't had the flu at all during that time.
              Maybe not effective for everyone, but it seems to be working for me without adverse side effects or any huge financial burden. I'll keep getting one.
              Brian

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              • #37
                Originally posted by bjl584 View Post
                It's just a flu shot.
                I don't liken it to an Area 51 conspiracy.
                Yes, there is no free lunch, but even if I had no insurance (which I pay for) I would only have to pony up about $15.
                I've been getting a flu shot every year for the past 8 years and haven't had the flu at all during that time.
                Maybe not effective for everyone, but it seems to be working for me without adverse side effects or any huge financial burden. I'll keep getting one.
                As long as we all agree that we should have the choice to choose for our own body, I think we can get along here.
                My other blog is Your Organized Friend.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by creditcardfree View Post
                  I understand your point of view as a physician who doesn't want to get sued, but I think this is a problem. It's hard to have an upfront conversation with a physician because they only tell you standard of care, whatever will keep them from being sued. I personally want a doctor that is upfront with pros and cons of any procedure or advice. It's my decision what I do with my body and I'm employing you as a physician to get further knowledge to make that decision. I don't only want to hear standard of care advice.
                  I think you may have read too much into my response. I 100% agree with this. Standard of Care doesn't mean every patient gets treated the same way. It means that all providers should employ a similar process and methods in formulating treatment plans.

                  With the flu shot specifically, it doesn't mean blindly forcing every patient to have one. I have plenty of patients who refuse vaccination. My job, as you stated above, is to discuss the pros and cons and tell them why I recommend they get it. That is standard of care. The ultimate decision is theirs. They can choose to ignore standard of care but I shouldn't without good reason. Telling all of my healthy patients they don't need flu shots would be ignoring standard of care. And it isn't just not wanting to get sued. It's primarily wanting to do what is best for patients.

                  People ARE injured by vaccines. And most of those injured are now ex-vaxxers. Once you have been injured you don't want to receive another one. And do you blame them?! These are the people you are mad at? Because they won't get vaccinated again. We need to respect every one's right to choose what is done to their own body.
                  Again, not what I was suggesting at all. I'm not mad at anyone who had a bad reaction to a vaccine and subsequently doesn't get it anymore. In fact, I would encourage that. If you had an awful reaction to the flu shot last year, don't get another one.

                  What upsets me is the people who don't get vaccinated based on internet nonsense rather than actual science or because a friend of a friend once had a reaction that might possibly have been due to a vaccine they received. Do people have bad reactions to vaccines? Absolutely. Do people get bleeding ulcers from aspirin? Absolutely. Do people have anaphylactic reactions to penicillin? Absolutely. But that doesn't mean vaccines or aspirin or penicillin are evil and shouldn't be used anymore.

                  We live in an age where people are increasingly anti-science. That's what upsets me as someone with extensive scientific education and 25 years of experience in the field. Years ago, myths and old wives tales would pass down in a family but today, the internet and cable tv and social media spread those myths like wildfire and it's much harder to tell fact from fiction.
                  Steve

                  * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                  * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                  * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by creditcardfree View Post
                    As long as we all agree that we should have the choice to choose for our own body, I think we can get along here.
                    I think people should have the right to decide their own treatment. The problem arises when you make a decision that impacts other people. Choosing to not get a vaccine can put other people around you at risk. Choosing not to vaccinate your child can put that child's life at risk. That's where the problem gets less clear cut.
                    Steve

                    * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                    * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                    * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      I was not an "early adopter" of flu shots. I was just talking to someone yesterday who said she has been getting them for 20+ years. I didn't even know they had been around that long. I think I've been getting them for around 10 years?

                      I used to be more blase about it, and sometimes wait until December to get mine.

                      Now that I work in very close proximity with lots of people considered "vulnerable populations" (young children, pregnant women, elderly) I feel a moral responsibility to get my flu shot early in the season. I also got a shingles vaccination as soon as I turned 50, even though I read up and realized that they aren't even that effective. God forbid I not do it and unknowingly infect a very young child or pregnant woman. I would rather take the risk of something happening to me than transfer that risk to them.

                      And to keep it about finance: Got mine at CVS, fully covered by my health plan.
                      Last edited by scfr; 11-09-2017, 05:51 AM.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by scfr View Post
                        I was not an "early adopter" of flu shots. I was just talking to someone yesterday who said she has been getting them for 20+ years. I didn't even know they had been around that long.
                        The SOC has changed over the years. It used to be that the flu shot was only recommended for the elderly and people at increased risk of complications from the flu. Over time, the research data showed that there was a benefit to vaccinating as many people as possible. Hence the current SOC which is to vaccinate all patients 6 months of age and older (unless there are specific contraindications). So the shot has been around for a long time. It just wasn't as widely used.

                        Also, when pharmacies started giving vaccines, it became much more heavily marketed. You can't go near a pharmacy today without being bombarded with ads urging you to get your flu shot. That's also a financial aspect to this discussion. I would love to know how much income is being generated at the pharmacy level from administering vaccines.

                        My former practice used to give 500-600 flu shots each season. We had seen that number gradually decline as pharmacies got in the flu shot business. This year, my boss actually decided to not give flu shots at all after being stuck with so much excess stock last season. He's just sending everyone to the pharmacies.
                        Last edited by disneysteve; 11-09-2017, 06:39 AM.
                        Steve

                        * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                        * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                        * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by creditcardfree View Post
                          Sorry you don't know me. You don't know what I have or haven't read, have or haven't experienced or how I came to my conclusions. I think I have the right to choose what is put into my body.
                          There are a lot of things that you can't legally choose to put in your body.

                          And there are also things that you must put in your children (if you want them to go to school).
                          Last edited by disneysteve; 11-09-2017, 10:32 AM. Reason: offensive comment removed

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                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Nutria View Post
                            And there are also things that you must put in your children (if you want them to go to school).
                            Unless you have a medical or religious exemption.
                            Steve

                            * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                            * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                            * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by disneysteve View Post
                              Unless you have a medical or religious exemption.
                              You "helpfully" snipped out where I mentioned the religious exemption.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Nutria View Post
                                You "helpfully" snipped out where I mentioned the religious exemption.
                                Your mention was inappropriately worded. That's why it was removed.
                                Steve

                                * Despite the high cost of living, it remains very popular.
                                * Why should I pay for my daughter's education when she already knows everything?
                                * There are no shortcuts to anywhere worth going.

                                Comment

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