Three Years for Lying About Covid

**disneysteve** · 12-15-2020, 10:26 AM

Sounds reasonable to me. He committed a number of crimes. He also probably scared the hell out of his coworkers who were worried that they had been exposed.

ETA: See my 2nd post below.

**amarowsky** · 12-15-2020, 11:21 AM

Seems like these were just damages (time and money lost) no violence, or direct threat of violence/harm.

Awful thing for the prosecution to request..... 3-years in prison? Seems like a bad way to rectify a financial harm, at the Tax payer's expense.... In a cage no less, doing nothing to repay his damages.

I think heavy fines, wage garnishing, and hopefully a lot of community service. Fraudster's oughta be financially penalized. But if they're not showing direct violent nature in society, should not be in cages @ out expense. <---- utterly utterly wasteful use of dollars. You can penalize them more effectively for everyone. (of course, enough repeats, and consider something else more harsh).

**disneysteve** · 12-15-2020, 11:24 AM

Sorry, I didn't comment on prison time. Yeah, I think that's a bit extreme. Not that "white collar" criminals shouldn't ever be imprisoned but I don't really see how it fixes anything. And, as amarowsky points out, you and I are the ones who pay for it.

I'd rather see him get nailed for restitution of monetary losses and sentenced to some sort of community service work.

**HundredK** · 12-15-2020, 11:59 AM

Whenever a new type of crime comes up or an old crime becomes the subject of scrutiny, they always need a few cases that they come down super hard on to try to deter others from following suit. I think he deserves whatever he gets, even if it means he ends up being the example to others of why you shouldn't do that... someone has to be.

**HundredK** · 12-15-2020, 12:10 PM

I should add, though, that the article doesn't go into much detail about who this person is. A lot of our crimes are prosecuted unfairly if the person doesn't happen to be a privileged white person, and that to me is a much bigger problem than some schmuck getting the book thrown at him for being the first idiot to try and game a new system. I wish more white collar criminals did get in more trouble (here's looking at you, Goldman Sachs execs). The financial chaos they cause, and they often still get to profit from their crimes, often without ever having to admit guilt. I probably shouldn't jump so quickly to wanting the guy to get 3 years... it just baffles me that folks think they should get away with stuff like this with a slap on the wrist.

**bjl584** · 12-16-2020, 04:46 AM

Interesting.
I suspect we are going to see many more stories like this surface as time goes by

He's probably actually going to get Covid now.
Prisons are a hot bed.

**amarowsky** · 12-16-2020, 05:09 AM

Still strongly think prison should be reserved as an Absolute last ditch effort, that we can't get someone to live in society either benignly or ideally, harmoniously.

I still think prison should be reserved for those who are violent, or repeat offenders who are not able to learn a lesson.

Hard to someone to pay their debts, and redeem themselves behind bars. Much easier to repay debts going to work or at least providing community service that our communities could definitely need. Everyone deserves a road to redemption, if they're willing to walk it. Even if someone's road is a lot more narrow, and they have a lot more hoops to jump though.

I am surprised at how ruthless people are to throw a person in jail at our expense.... And to be quite frank, disappointed.

**myrdale** · 12-16-2020, 05:10 AM

Originally posted by HundredK View Post

A lot of our crimes are prosecuted unfairly if the person doesn't happen to be a privileged white person...

It never ceases to amaze me how quick people are to start talking racism and white privilege. I'd love to know how a crime is prosecuted unfairly in this day and age. Are you suggesting the jails are full of innocent people? And if you can't afford legal representation, let me suggest you not commit the crime in the first place. Honestly the United States of America is the freest, most just country in history.

Back to the post. I am assuming the wire fraud charge is because he collected sick time pay while not being sick. In the last 15 years of working, I have used 6 sick days. 5 for the flu two years ago and 1 for a surgery over a decade ago. In the mean time I have seen dozens of people call in sick because of the work that was going to go on that day or because they use it as vacation time. How are these people any different?

I do wish the article gave more indication on the bank fraud charges. I did find an article from 2018 that indicated mortgage fraud was about 1 in 108 applications. The article went on to say there were sites which for a price, will generate fake pay stubs and even offer telephone answering service to verify employment. I found another source that said credit applications in general were as high as 1 in 5 people listed false information.

I'd love to find a stat on what percent of subprime mortgages also had fraudulent information on the application.

**disneysteve** · 12-16-2020, 05:15 AM

Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

I still think prison should be reserved for those who are violent, or repeat offenders who are not able to learn a lesson.

Someone like Bernie Madoff, for example, deserved to be in jail. He defrauded hundreds of people and institutions out of millions and millions of dollars over many years. It wasn't a one-off cheat like this bozo who was just trying to get 2 weeks off of work with pay and didn't really think through the consequences of doing that. Madoff knew exactly what he was doing and kept doing it for as long as he was able to get away with it.

**amarowsky** · 12-16-2020, 05:33 AM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

Someone like Bernie Madoff, for example, deserved to be in jail. He defrauded hundreds of people and institutions out of millions and millions of dollars over many years. It wasn't a one-off cheat like this bozo who was just trying to get 2 weeks off of work with pay and didn't really think through the consequences of doing that. Madoff knew exactly what he was doing and kept doing it for as long as he was able to get away with it.

100% agree. There are certain things that, while not directly violent, cause such a large quantity of damage, that a message must be sent.

You can't put these (2) in the same Sport, let alone ball park.

From a quick google search, Bernie Madoff defrauded $65 Billion worth to investors.

Our "Lying about covid to make $2,400 a month from Quantitave Easing bailout, lets say he did it for 1 year (he didn't) = $48,000.
65,000,000,000/48,000 = He's (in legal damage terms) 1 /1.35 millionth as bad a person as Bernie.

Or more plainly put, it would take every single citizen in Dallas, Texas (rouhgly 1.4 million) would have to do the same thing, as this low life Fraudster.... To aggregate the same negative impact to our american brother and sisters...

Good example of someone (*bernie) who merits the full Wrath and Ire of the law. But this guys is 1.3 million degree's away from the same punishment. And you kidding youself if you think this guys <$48,000 fraud, is worth our $40k per year to keep that piece of S*** in jail.

I'm just as upset as you guys are for his actions. But use your freggin brain before you choose to support Caging a human being. Please think carefully, before condemning others. This is what got us into this mess of a prison state we have.

**bjl584** · 12-16-2020, 05:39 AM

I doubt that he will actually go to jail, at least not for very long if he even does.
I'm sure this will get pleaded down before it's finalized

**HundredK** · 12-16-2020, 05:46 AM

Originally posted by myrdale View Post

It never ceases to amaze me how quick people are to start talking racism and white privilege. I'd love to know how a crime is prosecuted unfairly in this day and age. Are you suggesting the jails are full of innocent people?

The facts show that different types of people are prosecuted differently. White people are not treated the same in the criminal justice system. Black folks, on average, receive longer sentences than white folks. There are algorithms used all across the criminal justice system that have been shown to be racist. Not just in criminal prosecution, it's everywhere. I just read an article recently that there's an algorithm that decides who should get kidney replacements, and yep, it ranks black people lower on the list. It's all pretty awful. So if you're amazed at how quickly people start talking racism, I'm going to guess you've not been exposed to or had the chance to understand a lot of people of color and the situations they deal with daily, just because their skin isn't white.

**amarowsky** · 12-16-2020, 05:50 AM

yea but still.... we shouldn't "want" someone to go to Jail.... All we get from this is a bunch of fools no considering the consequence of what they want to see, mob rule style. Not happy until this WITCH is burned!!!! While the real villians are lurking in the Ivory towers stealing $48,000 per DAY or better. Yet we all feel Justified that we nailed, there but by the grace of your god, one of us who was a little scared of covid, and took a cowardly risk to survive. He's a loser I get that, but he's no harm to me, or any of you here based on what we've heard. (and if he is a risk, it's like a Vanishingly small one).

You need to aim your Ire higher.... Look at our politicians. Going into the office as mere wealthy people, and leaving gluttons with $10's of millions and more. Don't kid yourself you can't afford a 12 million dollar estate on martha's vineyard on a $400,000 per year salary. (it'd take you 30 years to save that much, if you took every red cent home w/o tax). I know what you're all saying, He was probably making WAYYY more money was he was some lawyer from Chicago that no one gave a hoot about (HA!). He's way more of a criminal that this, small potatoes ,low life $48,000 of pandemic fraud. He just has enough money to be a legal criminal.

We should WANT that person to pay back to debts, and conform to the few rules it ought to take for society to operate in harmony.

**HundredK** · 12-16-2020, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by amarowsky View Post

Still strongly think prison should be reserved as an Absolute last ditch effort, that we can't get someone to live in society either benignly or ideally, harmoniously.

I still think prison should be reserved for those who are violent, or repeat offenders who are not able to learn a lesson.

Hard to someone to pay their debts, and redeem themselves behind bars. Much easier to repay debts going to work or at least providing community service that our communities could definitely need. Everyone deserves a road to redemption, if they're willing to walk it. Even if someone's road is a lot more narrow, and they have a lot more hoops to jump though.

I am surprised at how ruthless people are to throw a person in jail at our expense.... And to be quite frank, disappointed.

I agree that too many people are incarcerated, and once they are, there's little chance of them becoming a full part of society again. I would fully support any laws that restructure prison sentencing to be more reasonable. My only point here is that the punishments, whatever they are, should be handed down equally to anyone who commits the crime. And they're not.

Three Years for Lying About Covid