Is this legal or ethical to save money?

[TexasHusker]

Easy to preach about honesty when you're not in need.

Who is preaching? Calling a spade a spade doesn’t mean you’re being judgmental. Rationalizing dishonesty doesn’t magically transform it into a virtue.

[Scallywag]

Who is judging anyone? Dishonesty is dishonesty. Of course I’ve been dishonest. I got arrested at age 13 for shoplifting a candy bar from a convenience store. I got busted for splicing into my neighbors cable TV when i was in college. But I can’t justify it in any way. What’s the difference in theft from a cabin, left of a bank, or theft of Netflix? It’s all the same to me.

Easy to preach about honesty when you're not in need.

[TexasHusker]

Texas, do you think its okay for family members to share netflix accounts? Its the same principle, right?

I would say so, yes.

[TexasHusker]

Have you EVER been in a position where you maybe took some "free refills" or churned bank a/cs or credit card "bonuses" or took a free trial and never renewed? If you have, then you shouldn't be judging.

And the situation you mention above where guests steal from your cabins or vacation rentals -- that's just outright theft and hardly in the same league as taking advantage of "free offers".

Who is judging anyone? Dishonesty is dishonesty. Of course I’ve been dishonest. I got arrested at age 13 for shoplifting a candy bar from a convenience store. I got busted for splicing into my neighbors cable TV when i was in college. But I can’t justify it in any way. What’s the difference in theft from a cabin, left of a bank, or theft of Netflix? It’s all the same to me.

[james.hendrickson]

Yes, dishonesty is a part of business. But I can look myself in the mirror, knowing that I am not participating in it.

Texas, do you think its okay for family members to share netflix accounts? Its the same principle, right?

[Scallywag]

Dishonesty is dishonesty, whether it's a "big corporate" or "mom and pop".

In my vacation rental business, we budget for replacing items stolen by guests, too. So we plan on some dishonesty. We also write off a fair amount of $$ for guests who lie to us. We had one guest email us to tell us they couldn't come due to COVID, about a week before arrival, and they demanded a refund. We gave them the refund, even though it wasn't required, out of good faith and good will. Within a few hours, they made a reservation at another one of the cabins we manage - they didn't realize that we managed multiple cabins in the area.

Yes, dishonesty is a part of business. But I can look myself in the mirror, knowing that I am not participating in it.

Have you EVER been in a position where you maybe took some "free refills" or churned bank a/cs or credit card "bonuses" or took a free trial and never renewed? If you have, then you shouldn't be judging.

And the situation you mention above where guests steal from your cabins or vacation rentals -- that's just outright theft and hardly in the same league as taking advantage of "free offers".

[myrdale]

Is it illegal or is it not ethical to abuse their system and get free services for 100 months?

What are the consequences if you get caught? Would you do it? Why or why not?

In my opinion it's wrong.

Will you ever be caught? No.

If you were caught what would happen? Nothing.

It just makes you a thief. For some reason people just assume they are entitled to goods or services and don't need to pay for it. Is it the same as snatching a purse or committing a strong arm robbery? No. But all the same it is theft.

Its the choices you make when no one else is looking or will ever know that make you the person you truly are.

[Scallywag]

Since we are on a SavingAdvice forum, I'd like to point out that the cup of coffee probably cost her more than a gallon of milk.

The "short" cup is not in the menu and at the time this happened was around a $1/ cup. She had 4 kids, and was getting 4 cups of milk for free in addition to the cup of coffee that she was ordering

Again, probably not "honest" but it was free and no one called the cops on her. And it probably stretched her milk budget a bit, while still let her enjoy a cup of coffee during her lunch break.

[moneybags]

And you know what? No one said anything - not even the baristas - when they saw her getting the milk for her children (who usually went in with her), even though she only paid for one small cup of the cheapest coffee they had.

Dishonest? Maybe.

But hey you gotta do what you gotta do because honesty aien't gonna keed your kids. And it wasn't for lack of trying. She held down 3 jobs, but still struggled to make ends meet. No judgment from me!

Since we are on a SavingAdvice forum, I'd like to point out that the cup of coffee probably cost her more than a gallon of milk.

[TexasHusker]

Oh come now. Do you really think "gaming the system" with big corporates is "dishonesty and deceit"?

I can understand your perspective when it comes to small businesses, sole proprietorship and Mom-and-Pop outfits. But large conglomerates and giantosaurus corporations who engage in these "free offers" do so knowing some of the fish will take the bait they put out, increasing their bottom lines. The few people who succeed in gaming them hardly impact said bottom lines. In fact, it's a small opportunity cost that they incur when they cast their nets.

Dishonesty is dishonesty, whether it's a "big corporate" or "mom and pop".

In my vacation rental business, we budget for replacing items stolen by guests, too. So we plan on some dishonesty. We also write off a fair amount of $$ for guests who lie to us. We had one guest email us to tell us they couldn't come due to COVID, about a week before arrival, and they demanded a refund. We gave them the refund, even though it wasn't required, out of good faith and good will. Within a few hours, they made a reservation at another one of the cabins we manage - they didn't realize that we managed multiple cabins in the area.

Yes, dishonesty is a part of business. But I can look myself in the mirror, knowing that I am not participating in it.

[TexasHusker]

Singuy, your username along with this response gave me a chuckle. This is, arguably, the other side of the debate. I am not religious nor do I believe that morality and legality often coincide; but I do believe in doing the right thing--which I realize is highly subjective. this pings the radar in the "this is wrong" category for me. No judgement on this particular issue; it's just netflix. But it is the reason fine print exists; there are people who will take advantage of offers, trials, etc, no doubt.

OK, I hear this a lot. "Do the right thing." So here's a question: What is the right thing? Is what is right for you the same is what is right for me? Certainly our laws determine what is "legal" versus "illegal". But what/who decides what is "right" and "wrong"? Or, put more accurately, "moral" or "immoral"?

[Scallywag]

I’m always amazed that certain people have seeming intent to gravitate toward dishonesty and deceit. I suppose we all have that virus to one degree or another.

But it seems that some work so hard to fake someone out, that if they properly re-directed their efforts, they’d be wealthy and infinitely happier.

When I was in healthcare admin, I was expected to lie and cheat all the time. Hospitals are some of the biggest leeches in our country today. I witnessed evil.

I selected the businesses I am in now so that I never felt compelled to lie or cheat. It’s awesome.

Oh come now. Do you really think "gaming the system" with big corporates is "dishonesty and deceit"?

I can understand your perspective when it comes to small businesses, sole proprietorship and Mom-and-Pop outfits. But large conglomerates and giantosaurus corporations who engage in these "free offers" do so knowing some of the fish will take the bait they put out, increasing their bottom lines. The few people who succeed in gaming them hardly impact said bottom lines. In fact, it's a small opportunity cost that they incur when they cast their nets.

Sheesh ! Can't believe this is even being asked.
I suppose you may as well fill your pockets or purse with all the sugar and creamer packets at the restaurant too.

When in doubt, refer to the golden rule.

Indeed. Don't forget "free refills" at the soda fountain or at the coffee table. A single Mom I once knew used to go into Starbucks with additional cups and would fill them up with milk to feed her growing kids. Who am I to judge her when I might do the exact same thing if i was short of cash and saw a large milk jug on the counter just waiting to be helped into?

And you know what? No one said anything - not even the baristas - when they saw her getting the milk for her children (who usually went in with her), even though she only paid for one small cup of the cheapest coffee they had.

Dishonest? Maybe.

But hey you gotta do what you gotta do because honesty aien't gonna keed your kids. And it wasn't for lack of trying. She held down 3 jobs, but still struggled to make ends meet. No judgment from me!

[Fishindude77]

Sheesh ! Can't believe this is even being asked.
I suppose you may as well fill your pockets or purse with all the sugar and creamer packets at the restaurant too.

When in doubt, refer to the golden rule.

[TexasHusker]

I’m always amazed that certain people have seeming intent to gravitate toward dishonesty and deceit. I suppose we all have that virus to one degree or another.

But it seems that some work so hard to fake someone out, that if they properly re-directed their efforts, they’d be wealthy and infinitely happier.

When I was in healthcare admin, I was expected to lie and cheat all the time. Hospitals are some of the biggest leeches in our country today. I witnessed evil.

I selected the businesses I am in now so that I never felt compelled to lie or cheat. It’s awesome.

[Scallywag]

Lol ROFL.

First of all, these companies spend a ton of money on research into consumer psychology and they KNOW that for every 1 customer that "games" the system, there'll be at least 4 more who will "bite". These are LARGE BUSINESSES, not "regular people" or small Mom-and-Pop outfits that you're trying to "rip off".

Casinos know that the system is rigged so that the house ALWAYS wins. Yet people go willingly & gamble - sometimes even their rent money, losing it all! But I don't see anyone screaming that casinos are illegal & should be banned, but intelligent folks who are good at math and know how to beat the odds at the gambling table and walk away with a truck load of winnings usually get "investigated" and then "banned" by not one but all of the casinos in the area!

What about credit cards, overdraft fees, and interest rates on these charged by the big banks? What about uxorious interest rates charged by payday lenders who're somehow still "legal"?

What about student loans at "for profit" colleges that carry a high rate of interest with NO guarantee of an income that might actually make it possible for their students to actually pay these loans back?

Capitalism, baby. A lot of things aren't ethical in this country but happen because they're not illegal. Consumers trying to "game" the system or churning bank a/cs or credit cards or trial offers for services in the mail are hardly big fish that milk those who are least able to pay.

Edited to fix spelling errors.