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A Guaranteed Basic Income of $583 might work in the U.S.A.?

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  • A Guaranteed Basic Income of $583 might work in the U.S.A.?

    Here’s a summary of how this would work from this second article from Business Insider from 2013. Which by the way, initially seems a lot more plausible than an article I read recently proposed $1000 a month universally to all Americans.


    1. Settle on a monthly benefit. This 2nd Business Insider article initially proposes $583 a month guaranteed basic income for all Americans.

    2. Not universal or for all citizens. But not so fast! The “rich” (anyone making over $60,000 a year) are excluded from this guaranteed income so it’s not universal. So this is essentially a tax on the “rich” and indeed a redistribution proposal. The math is a little fuzzy here. They proposed $500 in one paragraph but $583 is the number used in the example. Benefits are reduced by $233 a year for each $1,000 rise in income over $30,000 a year. The article proposes that someone earning $45,000 would receive a guaranteed basic income of $3500 yearly or $291.67 a month. Anyone earning more than $60,000 a year receives nothing. I did the math myself and this would likely cost about $700 Billion based on articles I read from Think Progress and this US Census Source for 2014 Population, % of Population under 18, % of Population over 65.

    Here's a sample breakdown:

    $30,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $6,996.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    $31,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $6,763.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    $32,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $6,530.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    ...
    $40,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $4,666.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    ...
    $45,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $3,501.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    ...
    $50,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $2,336.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    ...
    $55,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $1,171.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.
    ...
    $65,000 yearly household income would see a GBI benefit of $0.00 yearly. Plus $1500 yearly per child.


    3. Adults with children receive an additional benefit. All parents would receive$1500 yearly or $125 monthly per child. I personally think there probably would need to be some sort of maximum benefits for say 4 or 5 children. Assume about 54.2 million children so $81.4 Billion. A positive side effect is this could be a stimulus for an increase in children in the average home. The U.S. currently has less than a 1% increase in population growth annually. Take population growth in China and India as an example.

    4. Seniors (over 65) do not receive this basic income. The argument is senior citizens have social security with an average monthly benefit of $1,3000. I think senior citizens are a huge voting block and would likely never go for this if they were excluded.

    How to pay for this? From the article. In parenthesis my thoughts.


    First, eliminating all state and federal programs for low-income Americans will save almost $800 billion. (This number is mind blowing)

    Second, additional funding comes from elimination of benefits in the Affordable Care Act. Obamacare subsidies will be $107 billion a year starting Jan. 1, 2014 and the Medicaid expansion is another $71 billion. (Note: As I understand it this would eliminate only portions of AHA or Obamacare)


    Third, the remaining $180 billion in funding can come in the form of new revenues. Eliminating the mortgage interest deduction $71 billion and implementing a carbon tax $105 billion would just about be enough.

    Phasing out the programs costs $206 billion for a total cost of $1.147 trillion.
    It would potentially eliminate a lot of jobs. It would potentially create a lot of jobs. It would allow those with lower income to use the money where they needed it. What do you think?
    Last edited by Eagle; 06-23-2016, 08:35 AM.
    ~ Eagle

  • #2
    If I lose my $80K job in the middle of the year, do I start getting a subsidy?

    Comment


    • #3
      • What about divorced people with joint custody of the children? Do they each get $750?
      • And what about "every other weekend and one month in the summer"? That's 74 days. Does that spouse get $304 and the full-custody spouse get $1196?
      • What if you get divorced during the year and thus two households are created ( when the two incomes were over $60K, but the separate incomes are well under $60K)?
      • What legally and provably defines a household when the two people aren't married?


      I can imagine a dozen ways to game this system, and I'm sure that there are a hundred more.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Nutria View Post
        If I lose my $80K job in the middle of the year, do I start getting a subsidy?
        I'm sure there would be an application process if this GBI were implemented. There would be a lag time.
        ~ Eagle

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Nutria View Post
          • 1 What about divorced people with joint custody of the children? Do they each get $750?
          • 2 And what about "every other weekend and one month in the summer"? That's 74 days. Does that spouse get $304 and the full-custody spouse get $1196?
          • 3 What if you get divorced during the year and thus two households are created ( when the two incomes were over $60K, but the separate incomes are well under $60K)?
          • 4 What legally and provably defines a household when the two people aren't married?


          I can imagine a dozen ways to game this system, and I'm sure that there are a hundred more.
          @Nutria
          1 & 2. It would be $150 a month per child. So if a parent has joint 50/50 custody it would be $75 per parent. Whatever the divorce decree states would be the standard. If a parent has a child 1/3 of the time they would get 1/3 of $1500 a year or $495.

          3. If two households are created then the new head of household income would be the factor. So yes, it would essentially create 2 new family units. Notice though that it's $583 per adult. So if a household income is reduced for one spouse to $30,000 and the other for $30,000 each spouse gets $583 a month. If they have kids they would split the children's GBI according to the divorce decree.

          4. This is where it would get tricky. People are constantly in flux. People live in one home yet claim to live in another. How would you solve this problem when two people aren't legally married?

          5. Question for you... What would be the alternative to GBI? The current system clearly isn't working I'm sure we'd all agree?
          ~ Eagle

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Eagle View Post
            @Nutria
            1 & 2. It would be $150 a month per child.
            Note: $1500/year is $125/month, not $150.

            3. If two households are created then the new head of household income would be the factor. So yes, it would essentially create 2 new family units. Notice though that it's $583 per adult. So if a household income is reduced for one spouse to $30,000 and the other for $30,000 each spouse gets $583 a month. If they have kids they would split the children's GBI according to the divorce decree.

            4. This is where it would get tricky. People are constantly in flux. People live in one home yet claim to live in another.
            Or constantly move.

            And adult college students. They're on their parents' insurance, and their "home" is with their parents, but they live somewhere else 9 months out of the year.

            The homeless...

            How would you solve this problem when two people aren't legally married?
            I can't. Real Life is too messy for a GBI that implicitly assumes a married, nuclear family.

            5. Question for you... What would be the alternative to GBI? The current system clearly isn't working I'm sure we'd all agree?
            Which system? Capitalism, or the nanny state?

            2. Not universal or for all citizens
            • Nowhere in the article is the word "citizen" used. It's "Americans".
            • Guess how many of the 11 million illegals are going to claim to be Americans?
            • Guess which political party is going to support it wholeheartedly?
            • Guess who's going to demonize the political party that only wants it for citizens?
            • How many more illegals are going to flood across the border to get this?

            Comment


            • #7
              We need less government hand-outs, not more.
              Gunga galunga...gunga -- gunga galunga.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by greenskeeper View Post
                We need less government hand-outs, not more.
                I've read three straight comments from you which are nothing more than bumper sticker slogans.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Nutria View Post
                  Note: $1500/year is $125/month, not $150.
                  Right... lol. My bad on the typo. If you'd taken a little more time to read the OP you'd have seen it was $1500 a year or $125 a month. So $62.50 a month for each parent. So $150 or $125 a month it is all ball park. Not sure where you got $750 from?

                  Originally posted by Nutria View Post

                  And adult college students. They're on their parents' insurance, and their "home" is with their parents, but they live somewhere else 9 months out of the year.

                  The homeless...

                  I can't. Real Life is too messy for a GBI that implicitly assumes a married, nuclear family.

                  Which system? Capitalism, or the nanny state?
                  Re: College students. So there'd need to be some form of provision for those in college. Perhaps a significantly reduced rate?

                  Re: Homeless. Not sure how to handle the homeless. Theoretically there would be no more homeless or a significant reduction in homeless people?

                  Re: Married, nuclear family. GBI could still be implemented. Proof of residence might be one route to go. Not sure what all that would entail and of course it could be tricky as this might be a further incentive for people not to tie the not.

                  Re: Nanny State "the government regarded as overprotective or as interfering unduly with personal choice."
                  Not sure if that's a good choice.

                  Re: Other alternative. We don't have a pure capitalistic system in the U.S. I just think things need to be simplified. I wonder if a flat rate would be feasible if GBI is not?
                  Last edited by Eagle; 06-23-2016, 01:57 PM.
                  ~ Eagle

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nutria View Post
                    • 1. Nowhere in the article is the word "citizen" used. It's "Americans".
                    • 2. Guess how many of the 11 million illegals are going to claim to be Americans?
                    • 3. Guess which political party is going to support it wholeheartedly?
                    • 4. Guess who's going to demonize the political party that only wants it for citizens?
                    • 5. How many more illegals are going to flood across the border to get this?
                    1. Americans are citizens of the U.S.A. Of course it would only apply for citizens. Unless all illegals are granted citizenship that is...

                    2. Without proper documentation (birth certificate, social security number, etc. those illegals will not be able to claim citizenship.

                    3. Likely the Democratic party will support such a proposal.

                    4. Likely Republicans will only support it if it applies to U.S. citizens. Likely Democrats will call foul.

                    5. No more than already attempt to get across illegally or bribe their way into the country.

                    And what exactly is your point? lol
                    ~ Eagle

                    Comment

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