Getting out of poverty observations.

[Nika]

Inspired by another discussion... What helps people get out of poverty and why can't some break this cycle?

Yes, it is hard. But growing up in NYC in an immigrant community, I could not help but notice that families of immigrants that came here with $50-$500 (a lot of my HS and college classmates), shared a room, parents got low paying jobs right away, have all mostly done well enough (I would say average salary of 60-140k), while there is a much lower rate of success in places like projects, where people have advantages like speaking English, understanding the system well, etc.

I thought about it, and noticed some correlation. It is not about the financial resources that they come with.

1) Kids moved from capital cities or large cities, with generally strong school systems (in my community it was Russia and China). They did not speak English, but it took very short time for them to learn, and they were usually 2 years ahead in math and sciences already. Kids from villages or small towns tended not to do as well, and that carried all the way into adulthood.

2). Their parents were educated. Even if they could not apply the skills here, and went into low paying jobs such as CNA or catering waiters, it made the difference in how much emphasis was put on education in the household.

3). Expectations. Immigrant kids were not allowed by their family or their community to get angry. Even if they faced discrimination or had problems finding jobs. You think you have a disadvantage over the American kid because of your accent? Well, so and so's kids are successful and got a job anyway, so you must do the same. No blaming allowed, everything is your responsibility. That may not be fair, but probably is more effective than just getting upset at society.

So a child of a Korean nail technician probably has a higher chance of succeeding than a child of native born person in poverty. Even if the technician starts out with nothing but a $20,000 debt for coming here.

I think in the ideal world, what needs to be done to address poverty is to bring schools in poor areas closer in line with schools in the rich areas. This is something that starts setting kids apart early on, more than money. Maybe that's why the immigrant kids that have a strong academic base from their own country do better. And they already have that discipline and expectations needed to succeed.

Focusing on schools, school nutrition, and societal expectations, quality childcare is probably a better approach. But the school rift is getting larger, not smaller and I think as long as we have school funding tied to the affluence of the community, that's going to be the result.

[bjl584]

Some, but not all of the problem, is mindset, attitude, and peoples' willingness or lack there of to get out of their comfort zone and make a positive change in their own life.

The system can hold you back, but there comes a point where you can rise above and do what you need to do. Sometimes, those can be hard and scary choices to make and actions to take. Tell someone that has been living in the same house for 20 years and working the same menial job for just as long that success can be found if they moved to a different state and worked for an employer in that state that is hiring and paying triple what they make, and they will cringe. "I can't move. I've lived there my whole life. A new state sounds scary. A new job sounds scary. What about my friends, my family? I don't want to pull my kids out of school." On and on it goes. Poverty or not, people get into a comfort zone and a routine that is nearly impossible for the average person to break away from.

[rennigade]

Because immigrants came from a place that is unimaginable to those who live/born in the united states. They have a lot of motivation to work hard, make a living and do something with themselves.

Lets not beat around the bush...there are a certain group of individuals who embrace a lifestyle of handouts, chaos, violence and poor living conditions. We can no longer speak of that group as the PC police and social justice warriors will see a green light. This will spark more protests, looting, rioting and violence. I cannot think of a better way of expressing yourself than looting liquor stores, electronic stores, grocery stores and setting cvs on fire. Their voices will be heard!

You think its possible for our politicians to send those individuals to mexico and allow illegals to enter? At least they work hard and want a better life.

[bjl584]

Because immigrants came from a place that is unimaginable to those who live/born in the united states. They have a lot of motivation to work hard, make a living and do something with themselves.

Lets not beat around the bush...there are a certain group of individuals who embrace a lifestyle of handouts, chaos, violence and poor living conditions. We can no longer speak of that group as the PC police and social justice warriors will see a green light. This will spark more protests, looting, rioting and violence. I cannot think of a better way of expressing yourself than looting liquor stores, electronic stores, grocery stores and setting cvs on fire. Their voices will be heard!

You think its possible for our politicians to send those individuals to mexico and allow illegals to enter? At least they work hard and want a better life.

Part of this is true as well. A lot of people in America don't know what true poverty is. As mentioned in another thread, America is the only country where its poor are obese.

True horror are places like North Korea where people are routinely tortured and executed. African countries where warlords burn entire villages, rape all the women, and cut the hands and feet off all the children. The Middle East where death and war is a way of life. A 10 year old kid is given an AK-47 and taught how to kill infidels. Mexico where the cartels chop peoples' heads off left and right. America is a paradise compared to places like that. If I were living in a place like that and managed to escape to America, I would have unending drive and work ethic to get ahead and make a better life for myself.

[Nika]

Most immigrants I personally know and on which I base these observations did not come from such places. They were middle class in poorer but fairly stable countries, never had to go hungry and had access to quality education. They just did not have access to that much economic opportunity.

[Singuy]

Part of this is true as well. A lot of people in America don't know what true poverty is. As mentioned in another thread, America is the only country where its poor are obese.

True horror are places like North Korea where people are routinely tortured and executed. African countries where warlords burn entire villages, rape all the women, and cut the hands and feet off all the children. The Middle East where death and war is a way of life. A 10 year old kid is given an AK-47 and taught how to kill infidels. Mexico where the cartels chop peoples' heads off left and right. America is a paradise compared to places like that. If I were living in a place like that and managed to escape to America, I would have unending drive and work ethic to get ahead and make a better life for myself.

Maybe it's not a drive. Maybe when you grow up needing to allocate 40% of your life just to gather clean water for your kids, picking oranges and mowing people's lawns seem like a vacation than a job.

I know many people here pride themselves of "working hard" because they just worked 48 hours this week in an air conditioned room sitting around answering phone calls.

[Nutria]

success can be found if they moved to a different state and worked for an employer in that state that is hiring and paying triple what they make, and they will cringe. "I can't move. I've lived there my whole life. A new state sounds scary. A new job sounds scary. What about my friends, my family? I don't want to pull my kids out of school."

"My wife refuses to leave her family."

[FLA]

You think its possible for our politicians to send those individuals to mexico and allow illegals to enter? At least they work hard and want a better life.

this is a disgusting comment, one most would be embarrassed to utter let alone believe.

Maybe you need to look at the system you feel is so fraught with fraud and go meet some actual impoverished Americans who actually do not embrace their poor housing, limited opportunities, poor school systems and their "handouts". You grow up in the ghetto in a school with 20 yr old textbooks, not enough food at home, mother is working minimum wage jobs because welfare is not infinite and by the time she pays for childcare (the State affordable one in the ghetto was shutdown 20 yrs ago), her bus pass, food and the energy bill there is nothing left. And she was raised in this manner, no parent or teacher helped her apply for scholarships to go to community college to better herself and she was not one of the lucky few who rise above their beginnings all on their own.

As for food stamp fraudsters and Welfare Queens, this makes my point better than I can:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/just-how-wrong-is-conventional-wisdom-about-government-fraud/278690/

[FLA]

I think in the ideal world, what needs to be done to address poverty is to bring schools in poor areas closer in line with schools in the rich areas. This is something that starts setting kids apart early on, more than money. Maybe that's why the immigrant kids that have a strong academic base from their own country do better. And they already have that discipline and expectations needed to succeed.

Focusing on schools, school nutrition, and societal expectations, quality childcare is probably a better approach. But the school rift is getting larger, not smaller and I think as long as we have school funding tied to the affluence of the community, that's going to be the result.

ITA with you. Except how will this change occur with affluent voters likely voting to block changes like this, they don't want their tax dollars going to the inner city schools, they want those dollars in there own schools? And people in poverty vote less often. IDK how to fix it but every child should have access to enough food even if two meals a day are provided at school, decent healthcare and the same education as my kid gets 10 miles away from inner city schools. Getting hooked up with a mentor who can show a different path would help but in our inner city district there is one social worker for entire school system, from elementary to HS, thousands of kids and one of her. I just don't know how to fix it because enough people don't want their tax dollars going to enact positive change.

I had high hopes for Welfare to Work but by the time that came down, all it was was more restrictions on benefits with little to none of the proffered job training and affordable childcare. Without a helping hand to start, training for more than a minimum wage job and no low cost daycare, the poor were cut off at the knees.

[MakeAStash]

Many factors are perpetuating the cycle. Many in poor communities are jealous of those who manage some success. In schools a few can disrupt a whole classroom while laws prohibit isolating the disrupters. Watch the HBO series "The Wire" especially season 4, it will be eye opening.

[TexasHusker]

Many in poverty are quite OK with it. I learned this over several years of working with a homeless shelter here.

I was always wanting to find ways to make them like me, help them "pull themselves up", etc.

But there is nothing necessarily wrong with living in poverty. You and me wouldn't be satisfied with it, but it is not illegal to live in poverty.

I found that many people were quite content to live in poverty - their happiness wasn't derived by possessions. In fact, studies show that the many of the homeless population share traits and aptitude of entrepreneurs - they are independent, want no boss, and like to live unfettered from rules and regulations.

I finally learned that it is best to accept people for who they are, and where they are. Just because someone lives on the streets doesn't mean we can't be friends. And if...IF...they want my advice or help to change anything long term, I am happy to help.

My experience was the few, if any, wanted my help. They only wanted my acceptance.

[creditcardfree]

Many in poverty are quite OK with it. I learned this over several years of working with a homeless shelter here.

I was always wanting to find ways to make them like me, help them "pull themselves up", etc.

But there is nothing necessarily wrong with living in poverty. You and me wouldn't be satisfied with it, but it is not illegal to live in poverty.

I found that many people were quite content to live in poverty - their happiness wasn't derived by possessions. In fact, studies show that the many of the homeless population share traits and aptitude of entrepreneurs - they are independent, want no boss, and like to live unfettered from rules and regulations.

I finally learned that it is best to accept people for who they are, and where they are. Just because someone lives on the streets doesn't mean we can't be friends. And if...IF...they want my advice or help to change anything long term, I am happy to help.

My experience was the few, if any, wanted my help. They only wanted my acceptance.

Thanks for sharing! Acceptance. I like that!