Should federal workers strike ?

[disneysteve]

I kind of struggle with the whole "public servant" thing. There's a big difference in my mind between a soldier in Afghanistan (or anywhere else) and a secretary in an office somewhere in middle America who just happens to work for a Federal agency. The latter is really just a job like any other. I doubt that person went into it with any grand aspirations of serving the American people. More than likely, they were just looking for a decent paycheck with good benefits and that's who was hiring at the time.

For those who think Federal workers shouldn't be able to strike, I'm curious how you feel about other public employees striking, like teachers, for example.

[disneysteve]

they shouldn't be allowed a second job because that takes them away from their first job, which is us.

That would also be double dipping and we've already paid them to work for us.

Except we haven't paid them, at least not since the shutdown began. Why shouldn't they have the right to go out an earn a living? How about if any back pay was reduced by whatever they earned on their own during the shutdown period?

[Thrif-t]

I kind of struggle with the whole "public servant" thing. There's a big difference in my mind between a soldier in Afghanistan (or anywhere else) and a secretary in an office somewhere in middle America who just happens to work for a Federal agency. The latter is really just a job like any other. I doubt that person went into it with any grand aspirations of serving the American people. More than likely, they were just looking for a decent paycheck with good benefits and that's who was hiring at the time.

For those who think Federal workers shouldn't be able to strike, I'm curious how you feel about other public employees striking, like teachers, for example.

I'm kinda on the fence about teachers striking too. It depends!

Where I live in Ohio the teachers in my district are paid a good wage! I know this for a fact because there is a website that you can look up the faculties salaries. They are part of a union, have great benefits and a nice pension. So when they have threatened to go on strike, it irks me a little bit. I don't begrudge teachers making a good wage but I don't necessarily want them out of the classroom and not educating the children.

But reading on the internet, all parts of the country are not the same. Lots of teachers in the south and west make a pittance, so I'm more sympathetic if they strike for better wages and benefits.

[Scallywag]

Except we haven't paid them, at least not since the shutdown began. Why shouldn't they have the right to go out an earn a living? How about if any back pay was reduced by whatever they earned on their own during the shutdown period?

i don't know about you, but we paid them - we both had federal and social security taxes taken out of our paychecks and always have, including for the pay period ending in December and for both of January's paychecks ! We weren't given a pass on taxes because the federal government is shut down - we still had to pay them ! Were you given a pass on taxes by any chance ?

These people have been on my payroll since I got my first job and I have not begrudged them their pay until now when they threatened my son and other vulnerable Americans like him.

You make good on that threat and I am taking you off MY payroll, too. Your problem is with your payroll department aka Uncle Sam. Your problem is not with my son or others like him who are dutifully paying for your services every time we get a paycheck. In fact you get paid before I even see a dime of my earnings !

Los Angeles USD special education teacher strike infuriated me big time. They admittedly have a tough job but are handsomely compensated with cushy benefits and full pensions (eventually). However, when push came to shove they walked off the job leaving kids like my son in the lurch. Sure, I respect them !

[kork13]

I for one detest the very idea of a strike. If you don't like it, talk with your feet, and quit. Get a job that values you, and that you care something about. If you're willing to strike in order to freeze out your workplace, you clearly don't care to work there... So please just leave. If an employer finds themselves unable to keep their workforce intact, they'll figure it out & fix what they're doing, or they'll go under. That's the beauty of an open market. I don't care if it's teachers, factory workers, or federal employees. Don't strike, just quit & find yourself a better job.

And just to clear things up... I guarantee that THERE WILL NOT be any sort of strike or mass walkout by federal employees. Perhaps you've not spent much time around feds, so allow me to explain. There's not a federal worker around who doesn't know exactly what is/isn't in their contract or statement of work. They know what's required of them, and what they're allowed to do. They also know that if they try to make a statement and go on a strike, they will instantaneously be fired for cause, with 100% legal justification, which will also crush their chances of a good, comparable job in the private sector. No employer wants a complainer who got justifiably fired for trying to cause trouble. The calculus is simple: feds become feds because the pay is good, the benefits are great, and the pension is unmatched. Perhaps with very limited exception, they will not risk all of that just to make a losing political statement, when they're already guaranteed (by Congressional/Presidential action) that every single one of them will receive back pay & all related benefits. If you disagree with me, feel free to do so. But you will be what is commonly known as DEAD WRONG. I've been around federal employees (military, civilian, and everything in between) literally my entire life. Feds value the job too much to throw it away. As ~bs already stated, they will get no pity.

So I go back to my original statement. They can call in & use sick days/vacation days, or they can quit. They will not strike. End of story.

[Like2Plan]

There are several lawsuits underway challenging the legality of requiring federal workers to work without pay. One theory is that it violates the 13th amendment. https://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...=.9c157d1cc02f
But, as Kork has said it is illegal for govt workers to strike. Maybe you remember this: https://www.history.com/this-day-in-...ic-controllers

They will be made whole (sort of). But, this is really stressful to go through this especially when they say it could go on for an indeterminate length. I know we couldn't have gone on for an indeterminate length (before retirement).

Think about it. Would assurances that you would be made whole, too, if there is some sort of stoppage give you any comfort in your situation? It would be agonizing to go through not knowing when this would be resolved. These folks have been getting the brunt of it for a month now.

And let's face it--the longer it goes on, the less likely anyone will truly be "made whole". Say you have tap into your Roth contributions to pay your mortgage--those contributions can't be replaced-- that is tax advantaged space that is gone forever. Or, you have to access a CD or a savings bond from your e-fund--where you may have had a higher interest rate locked in and you now have an interest penalty for early withdrawal. Or, you get a low interest loan-- that interest won't be reimbursed. Or, you have a health issue and your health insurance hasn't been paid by your employer. Or, you can't get your prescriptions filled because the health insurance has lapsed. (Or, you can't get your child's prescription filled). This after working full time job.

I don't know how this is going to turn out. About the only we can do as citizens is email the folks we put into office and tell them what we think. Heck--maybe one of us might have a brilliant solution.... Keep the communications up until this is resolved.

[kork13]

If I didn't have an emergency fund, or any savings at all, but had a legal assurance that I would be back paid, I would go to my bank and say "what can you do for me?" All of the major and many smaller banks (especially those that cater to federal employees) are offering assistance to federal workers. I would take them up on whatever they'll offer, whether that's a HELOC, personal loan, or whatever else. I only need enough to get through a month or three, then it'll be repaid as soon as I get my fat back-pay check. So say I borrow $15k @ 6% interest for 3 months. I'll be out $225 of interest. Out of a $5k/mo budget, that will hurt, but I'll easily survive.

[~bs]

it's not "making people work without getting paid" its just the timing of the pay that's in question. Not paying people for weeks after the services is rendered likely violates state law, however, the feds are likely exempt somehow from it so idk if there are specific federal laws that deal with it.

[Like2Plan]

If I didn't have an emergency fund, or any savings at all, but had a legal assurance that I would be back paid, I would go to my bank and say "what can you do for me?" All of the major and many smaller banks (especially those that cater to federal employees) are offering assistance to federal workers. I would take them up on whatever they'll offer, whether that's a HELOC, personal loan, or whatever else. I only need enough to get through a month or three, then it'll be repaid as soon as I get my fat back-pay check. So say I borrow $15k @ 6% interest for 3 months. I'll be out $225 of interest. Out of a $5k/mo budget, that will hurt, but I'll easily survive.

I don't think that is righteous at all. But, when the federal govt stops making payments for health care for govt workers--(that is a deduction from their pay) and they can't get medical care and prescriptions filled--that's going to be a little harder to "make whole" 3 months later when everything is working again...

[kork13]

I don't think that is righteous at all. But, when the federal govt stops making payments for health care for govt workers--(that is a deduction from their pay) and they can't get medical care and prescriptions filled--that's going to be a little harder to "make whole" 3 months later when everything is working again...

This again is the "arm-waving" corn referred to. This hasn't happened, is not anticipated to happen (no insurance companies have talked about not accepting claims from feds), nor has a strike occurred, so let's all calm down, have a nice cup of tea, and watch the world (not) burn.

[Like2Plan]

This again is the "arm-waving" corn referred to. This hasn't happened, is not anticipated to happen (no insurance companies have talked about not accepting claims from feds), nor has a strike occurred, so let's all calm down, have a nice cup of tea, and watch the world (not) burn.

Again, there will be no strike as it is not legal. But, I’m not as confident as you are that these unintended consequences couldn’t possibly happen. This uncertainty causes anxiety. It is a big deal to the folks it is happening to and that is my point.

[~bs]

Again, there will be no strike as it is not legal. But, I’m not as confident as you are that these unintended consequences couldn’t possibly happen. This uncertainty causes anxiety. It is a big deal to the folks it is happening to and that is my point.

As I mentioned before, strikes do not need to be legal for it to happen. It doesnt even need to involve an official union. It merely requires a large portion of the workforce to ban together and walk off the job until their demands are met. Whether or not companies or the governments respect that, is up in the air. As I mentioned earlier, it is a bad idea because they're trading a position of strength into one of weakness.

They will not strike because it's a HORRIBLE IDEA, not because it's not legal.

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"In 2005- Thirty-three thousand New York City transit workers went on strike Tuesday morning after union and management officials failed to agree on a new contract. State law prohibits public employees from going on strike; later on Tuesday, a judge ruled that the union must pay a $1 million fine for every day they skip work. "

[disneysteve]

it's not "making people work without getting paid" its just the timing of the pay that's in question. Not paying people for weeks after the services is rendered likely violates state law, however, the feds are likely exempt somehow from it so idk if there are specific federal laws that deal with it.

There must be something that makes it legal for the government to do this. Of course, since they make the laws, that's no surprise.

Think about it. What would you do if your employer came to you this morning and said, "Hey ~bs, I just wanted to let you know that I'm not sure when we'll be able to pay you again. I guarantee that you will get every penny that's due to you. You just may not get it for a month or two or more. We just don't know. So keep on working and we'll pay you eventually."

[disneysteve]

I don't know about anybody else, but I have an employment contract. It spells out how much I will be paid and on what schedule. If my employer misses a paycheck, they'd be in breach of contract and I could take legal action. Too bad all the folks not getting paid don't have similar contracts.

[creditcardfree]

I kind of struggle with the whole "public servant" thing. There's a big difference in my mind between a soldier in Afghanistan (or anywhere else) and a secretary in an office somewhere in middle America who just happens to work for a Federal agency. The latter is really just a job like any other. I doubt that person went into it with any grand aspirations of serving the American people. More than likely, they were just looking for a decent paycheck with good benefits and that's who was hiring at the time.

The coast guard is currently working and not getting paid during this shutdown, they are under the Department of Homeland Security funding. I'm on a base where families work for the coast guard, fortunately the community is rallying around them collecting food, diapers, gas cards to help. There are banks offering loans, housing offering to defer rent. There are relief societies offering to help as well.