The cost of people not getting measles vaccine

**rennigade** · 02-02-2015, 05:28 PM

Its important for people to listen to celebs like jenny mccarthy who has dedicated 5 minutes of her life to the sciences and have studied vaccines and its affects on children. People like her are clearly the experts and you should take her advice.

For those who are on the fence...it may be to your child's benefit to get them vaccinated. Just sayin. Dont complain when they start to die. Darwin at work, no biggie.

Not sure about financial costs...probably more doctors/hospital visit that add up along with quarantine because your parents sprinkled pixie dust on the child and figured they were now immune to these harmful bio weapons.

**Spiffster** · 02-03-2015, 06:40 AM

This has been all over the interwebs lately... IMO the cost to everyone is unquantifiable. These are life / death decisions.
Just read the excuses people post on FB or elsewhere in regards to why they wont vaccinate their kids, absolutely insane. I wont pretend to know more about my kids biology than their pediatrician.

Spread the word:

Vaccinate yourselves against the anti-vaxxers

http://imgur.com/gallery/ybBUJ

**disneysteve** · 02-03-2015, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by rennigade View Post

Darwin at work, no biggie.

That might be true if it were only the unvaccinated individuals who suffered, but it isn't. Having people not get vaccinated because of morons like Jenny McCarthy puts everyone at risk, including those who have been vaccinated.

Not sure about financial costs...probably more doctors/hospital visit that add up along with quarantine because your parents sprinkled pixie dust on the child and figured they were now immune to these harmful bio weapons.

I think there is a big cost to society that is tough to measure. Look at the recent measles outbreak. It was traced to Disneyland. You have to assume that impacted their bottom line as people changed their travel plans and avoided visiting the park. Over 100 cases have now been confirmed and at least 28 of them were in unvaccinated individuals. As more and more people skip vaccines, it interferes with something called herd immunity which basically means that if a critical mass of people in a community are vaccinated, it provides protection for those who aren't. Once the number of unvaccinated rises to a certain level, you lose that herd benefit. That's what has happened in California.

**LuckyRobin** · 02-03-2015, 10:22 AM

I'm not sure if those costs can really be measured. How do you quantify the loss of a child? As for vaccines, I think the big ones are very important. Polio, DTP, MMR, HepA and HepB. I'm more on the fence on Varivax because my kids both got the chicken pox anyway, so I don't think it is all that effective. I am also on the fence about the HPV one. I gave that decision to my daughter and she decided to take it even though she has very little risk factor. We waited until high school age and not middle school age. Things like the flu vaccine, I have no faith in. When I would get the flu vaccine I'd immediately get sick, run a fever for two weeks, and have all the symptoms of the flu even though the claim is that you can't get the flu from the dead virus in the flu shot. Sure felt like the flu, though. I would then also get the flu a few months later and it generally went into walking pneumonia. When I quit the flu vaccine I only got the flu every five years or so instead of every year and it didn't turn into walking pnuemonia. The flu vaccine is such a crap shoot since a lot of the time they don't even put the correct strains of flu into it. I think sometimes this reflects badly on the whole vaccine industry and people start to doubt the efficacy of the others. Of course if they would take all the toxins out of the vaccines, I don't think vaccination would even be an issue in this country. There was never a valid reason to have mercury in a vaccine, for example.

**greentea** · 02-03-2015, 11:35 AM

I think it affects some people more than others. I have a friend who has a child who can't get the vaccine due to health issues who was planning to go to Disneyland. They decided the risk was too great and canceled the trip. Even though they has insurance, they still lost a couple hundred dollars. I'm sure there are many instances like this to families where there is a direct cost because of this outbreak.

**Scanner** · 02-03-2015, 12:25 PM

What are some of the personal finance costs to you (or other individuals in society) when parents refuse to vaccinate their kids against the measles? I'm wondering if a price can be put on how much I or the average person will lose because of this recent outbreak?

I dunno. . .sometimes I wonder if it's just a slow news day.

When I wake up in the morning, my brain boots up of things to worry about on a daily basis (in healthc category):

A. Childhood obesity
B. Prostate/colon cancer, breast cancer screenings
C. Long term care for elderly.
D. Alzheimers disease
E. Mental healthcare and lack thereof
F. Ebola making american landfall.

Here's where I put getting measles (whether you are vaccinated or unvaccinated):

RR. My brand of Vitamin C I take
SS. Whether I will contract a disease that Alice the Housekeeper took care of the Brady kids for in the fictional show.

Yeah, yeah, I know. . .it can create encephalitis in the brain. . .well. . .a cold can create pneumonia in the lung too. . .the question is. . .where do I place it on my list of things to worry about (and spend?)???

Vaccines work. Period. But 56 cases out of 250,000,000 people for a childhood disease may not exactly be newsworthy unless, in my paranoid fashion, there is some other agenda at work here.

**disneysteve** · 02-03-2015, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

But 56 cases out of 250,000,000 people for a childhood disease may not exactly be newsworthy unless, in my paranoid fashion, there is some other agenda at work here.

I'm not sure what you are saying here Scanner. The current outbreak in California was up to 102 cases last time I checked. That's 102 cases of a disease that we thought was totally eradicated a number of years ago that has made a comeback primarily (if not entirely) due to the anti-vaccine movement.

If we don't aggressively deal with it, those 102 cases could become hundreds or thousands of cases. We can't wait until the number is something that you consider "newsworthy" before addressing the problem.

Personally, I think the story was newsworthy when the first 5 cases were reported, and not just because there was a connection to Disneyland.

**Scanner** · 02-03-2015, 01:04 PM

LOL. . .fair enough. . .I am not militant about my position. And I regret saying that measles is some incidental illness. It can be very serious so okay. . .for whatever reason the debate was re-ignited.

So 102 cases out of 10 million in the California area. 18 were vaccinated, right? Is that the latest count?

So. . .I still stand by my position that scientists owe the American consumer more than just a "Well those 18 are outliers." Esp. when they had their "boosters."

I also have to wonder the reflexive conclusions scientists and policymakers make, when there is an outbreak, that the reason is "Oh those darn anti-vaxxers!!!! It's them."

What was it that philosopher said in Jurassic Park?

"If there is one thing the history of evolution has taught us it's that life will not be contained?" Some misquote thereof.

It's whole premise of the field of bacterial and viral ecology.

I think at some point though, it's fair to just trust people who know more than you about it and I am willing to do that. I don't want to micromanage every health decision on my family. If the doc says, "Get your shots", I am willing to do that. As per my other thread, I will say something is askew when the cost has gone from

$100 to $2190 to vaccinate a kid from Age 0-18. And a mealy-mouth counterargument of "Well, what's teh cost to society?". . meh. . .won't hold much sway with me.

As my father used to say, "You can bet one thing. . .there's somebody somewhere making a lot of money off of this."

**LuckyRobin** · 02-03-2015, 03:41 PM

I think more people would get their kids vaccinated in this country if the pediatricians were better educated on vaccines, too. I mean, I asked one ped why my kid should get a certain vaccine and the answer was basically, "Because." A lot of his answers were like that. Now whether he just didn't want to take the time to explain or really did not know, I am not sure, but we switched pediatricians. The one we've had for the last several years has been very, very good about explaining vaccines, what they do and don't do, what the risks are either way.

I do wonder why they don't push boosters of anything but tetanus for adults, though. It is my understanding that efficacy wears off after 10 years or so on many vaccines. Disneysteve, what are your thoughts as a doctor on why they don't really do booster shots for adults?

**disneysteve** · 02-05-2015, 08:38 AM

Here's something else to add to the cost conversation:

We've gotten a number of calls from patients concerned about the outbreak. They want to make sure that they are immune, so they will be getting blood work to check their immunity status. Those tests are pricey so this adds expense to the healthcare system overall. If I'm getting these calls, I'm sure most other doctors are getting them too. There will probably be thousands of patients who get these tests who never would have thought about it before.

**Scanner** · 02-05-2015, 11:38 AM

I had thought about that, DisneySteve. Any of those antibody tests aren't cheap.

I wonder if this may be better solved by insurance actuaries. . .that if you refuse the vaccine, your ins. premium goes up $X.XX based on the risk you pose to treating a preventable disease?

I think we have been headed down that path for years anyway. . .premium surcharges for being overweight, for smoking. . .why not failure (let's say electing not) to vaccinate?

Is this better than a compulsory system?

**disneysteve** · 02-05-2015, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

I wonder if this may be better solved by insurance actuaries. . .that if you refuse the vaccine, your ins. premium goes up $X.XX based on the risk you pose to treating a preventable disease?

I think we have been headed down that path for years anyway. . .premium surcharges for being overweight, for smoking. . .why not failure (let's say electing not) to vaccinate?

Is this better than a compulsory system?

I'm all in favor of penalizing bad behavior/rewarding good behavior. As you said, we already do that. I'm fine with adding refusing vaccines to the list.

**Scanner** · 02-05-2015, 12:33 PM

Me too.

Data is data and unless a doctor provides a medical exemption, let the people choosing not to vaccinate bear the cost. To me, subsidies/Obamacare/Medicaid participation could also be structured upon compliance.

But I'd also like to see a breakdown of costs and why vaccines have gone up 2000% since 1980. . .which ones, why, etc.

I don't think it's fair to just nod our heads and accept these costs into our pool without sufficient examination and scrutiny.

The cost of people not getting measles vaccine