Being "sold" the wrong idea of healthy foods.

[disneysteve]

Well, that is my point. You don't have to eat red or yellow peppers. You can get the same type of nutritional quality from the cheaper veggies. But people want to buy what they want to buy which is fine, but let's not then pretend it costs more. People are making choices that make it cost more.

True. I greatly prefer red peppers over green. I don't buy them because they are 4 times the price at my supermarket. When I'm at the farmers market where they are also $.99/lb just like the green ones, I'll buy them but I don't get there regularly.

Where you shop is also so important. If you're going to Whole Foods, you're going to spend a fortune no matter what you buy. If you go to the farmers market or Aldi or Produce Junction, you'll spend a lot less.

[Nika]

I live in NYC. The only thing "locally grown" are apples from upstate, and those are $2 a lb right now.

Fruits and vegetables are "in season" once a year, but I eat them all year long.
Sure, grains are cheap, but past certain amount there is no additional nutritional benefit from it. If I am having brown rice with my meal, it is 3-4oz, and I still need vegetables and protein.

Farmers markets are even more expensive than supermarkets here.

I don't go to "discount" supermarkets -- those are only in poor areas and have terrible selection of fresh produce. They are all packaged crp. Don't go to Whole Foods either -- their meat and fish quality is horrendous.

I go to Citarella (they get fresh shipments 3 times a week), get the whole fish (so I can see the eyes and the gills, and how fresh it looks in general) and have them filet it in front of me (they provide that service). One small arctic char will run 20-30lb. But it will be fresh, and gorgeous. Soft, buttery smooth filet... You might argue that is is a luxury to not eat the grayish frozen thing brushed with phosphates that falls apart and drips water when thawed... Maybe it is now. Eating seafood 2-3 times a week is healthy. But... than you have mercury (wild) and PCBs (farmed) to be concerned about. So than, the choices of fish are generally even more limited. Some flounders, and low level fishes like anchovies, herring, some trouts. To get the ones that are not drowned with salt (not from can) is also not cheap. Say, a pack of larger freshly marinated anchovies - $10.99. As a comparison -- smoked oysters are only $1 more, so might as well get those.

Or, I made some ricotta yesterday. The portion cost of ingredients (org. cream, org. milk and org. buttermilk) and cheese cloth will probably add up to $5 for 350 gram yield. (but it is easy to make and is preservative and stabilizers free). I feel better giving it to my toddler Plus, he is more willing to eat things he "helped" to cook.

A serving of cereal for breakfast is definitely cheaper than that ricotta with few freshly toasted hazelnuts and good honey. (Sure, steel cut oats with half baked apple is cheap too, and he has that 3 times a week, but he can't eat the same thing 7 times a week.

Some veggies are cheaper. But only so much of your diet can be carrots. Variety is an important part of eating healthy. The micro-nutrients you get from different foods. We try to buy a new or different fruit and vegetable every shopping trip.

So yes, to really eat a lot of fruits, veggies and lean proteins is more expensive. Does not mean it should not be a priority. We are lucky to be able to afford that. Not all people can. And even if they can, very often, the supply is just not there. Not every place has so much on offer as NYC.

[disneysteve]

to really eat a lot of fruits, veggies and lean proteins is more expensive.

Maybe in NYC but not in many other places. I'm only 90 miles from you and food is phenomenally cheaper in NJ compared to what you're saying.

[Nika]

Maybe in NYC but not in many other places. I'm only 90 miles from you and food is phenomenally cheaper in NJ compared to what you're saying.

I imagine housing is phenomenally cheaper as well. And car insurance. And tolls. And many other things.

Salaries probably lower too.

[disneysteve]

Some veggies are cheaper. But only so much of your diet can be carrots. Variety is an important part of eating healthy.

I agree. In our house, we routinely stock and eat carrots, onions, mushrooms, asparagus, broccoli, cauliflower, peppers, spinach, lettuce, leeks, potatoes, and more. Also grapes, apples, oranges, pears, peaches, and other fruit. All of that stuff is cheap, way cheaper than processed foods and the typical American diet crap.

[disneysteve]

I imagine housing is phenomenally cheaper as well. And car insurance. And tolls. And many other things.

Salaries probably lower too.

All true. It's all relative.

[BuckyBadger]

If I recall correctly, Nika very strongly feels that one can't eat healthily on the cheap. This thread illustrated, however, that her definition of "healthy" is much narrower than it is for most of the rest of us, and includes $30 per pound fish as a necessary staple.

http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/general-discussion/69547-heathy-eating-really-expensive.html

I think there's a lot of grey area in "healthy." Some people choose NOT to pay 5x as much for something that is out of season.

Also, those who are into carbon footprints and that sort of sustainability concept would be horrified that people pay so much for something that is shipped from so far away at such a premium. That sort of thing is quite damaging to the environment.

[Nika]

If I recall correctly, Nika very strongly feels that one can't eat healthily on the cheap. This thread illustrated, however, that her definition of "healthy" is much narrower than it is for most of the rest of us, and includes $24-$35 per pound fish as a necessary staple.

http://www.savingadvice.com/forums/general-discussion/69547-heathy-eating-really-expensive.html

I think there's a lot of grey area in "healthy." Some people choose NOT to pay 5x as much for something that is out of season.

Also, those who are into carbon footprints and that sort of sustainability concept would be horrified that people pay so much for something that is shipped from so far away at such a premium. That sort of thing is quite damaging to the environment.

Not one single food is a "necessary" for a healthy diet. There are foods that are good to have. Fish fats are among them.

What exactly is local and in season in NYC right now?

And as for carbon footprint, people who live in apartments and commute by public transport have a much smaller carbon footprint than those who live in houses that are far less efficient to heat and drive everywhere. But I'm not implying you are a selfish environment-destroying bstard because you chose to live in a house.

[bigdaddybus]

In 2008, my wife and I followed P90X to the T (exercise and recipies)

A couple things I learned.
1. I was full and I often did not eat as much as the program recommended
2. The exercise, though short in duration was really, stinking hard to do right
3. our food expenses went down

and rather than becoming a lifestyle we tired of it eventually.

I did go from 224lbs to 186lbs in 3 months. My wife went from 130 to 114 with absolutely ripped abs and shoulders.

The reduction in processed foods intake was huge. I think its a great program for those willing to give 100% to it

[Nika]

It is also REALLY easy to fall of the wagon and buy a ton of unhealthy stuff here. Selection is always there to tempt you. Example - last weekend grocery shopping (NOT typical).

You can see post with pictures here: One Middle Class New Yorker Blog
I'm just sharing to give an idea of the selection available, prices, and willpower one needs.

I've been trying to keep a blog on and off, and I have ton of things to post, but most days don't have time or motivation, since I only get spam as comments.

So if you post any comments on my blog, it will be an encouragement for me to keep it going.

[disneysteve]

Nika, it looks like part of the problem is that you are showing extremely exotic food items. That isn't what most people are eating. As best as I could in those photos, the items that are more typical selections seemed to be priced pretty similarly to what I pay here in South Jersey. So a lot of it really comes down to personal choice. Sure, you can spend a fortune buying exotic items from across the globe or you could spend a much lower amount buying "standard" American produce items, even in NYC.

[Nika]

Oh, this is not what I typically buy. But, selection presented does influence one's choices.
You think you would not pick up few of those items if you found yourself here? And there is always something new to try.

This weekend was worse than usual. Between 3 Italian meals in that shopping cart, new Peruvian restaurant, and going out with friends to a nice British gastro-pub and Lady M, I've gained enough to freak out. I've paid for it dearly, and this week I'm taking intense fitness classes every day to get back to the south side of 125.

[disneysteve]

You think you would not pick up few of those items if you found yourself here?

My local Wegman's carries a wide variety of produce (not quite as exotic as in your pictures). That doesn't influence what I buy at all. I buy the same stuff week after week after week. And when certain regular items are out of season and the price shoots up, I don't buy them. Besides, when some things are out of season, the stuff they do sell is lousy. Strawberries are a perfect example. They sell them all year but they taste like cardboard when they are out of season.

I published an article in a national finance magazine years ago about our frugal lifestyle. I don't have it in front of me so I don't recall the exact numbers but in 1950 the typical supermarket carried about 7,000 items. By 1990, the average was over 40,000 items. The vast majority of those "new" items were processed convenience items. And I'm sure the total today is probably far higher.

I had a patient who went to Greece for vacation a number of years ago. When she got back, she told me that one thing that impressed her the most was that their supermarkets are about the size of our gas station convenience stores. That's where people do their weekly grocery shopping. They don't have aisle upon aisle stocked with crap. They just have all of the basics - meat, poultry, fish, produce, baking ingredients, etc. And guess what? She said obesity is rare there. She hardly saw a single fat person who wasn't a tourist.

[NetSkyBlue]

As far as produce, the best combination of fresh/healthy/cheap you can do is to buy (or grow, if you can) only in-season produce, at its cheapest price of the season, in bulk, and freeze/can to last you the rest of the year.

You're also then not contributing to out of season fruits & vegetables being shipped cross-country "green" and left to ripen off the plant. Not as tasty, not as nutritious, and not as good for the environment.

And in Greece, at least in Athens, EVERY fast food place delivers to your door, just like pizza, so maybe the obese people just aren't going out for groceries!

[Reggie]

Eating in season is definitely the key here. I am a former body builder and avid fitness fanatic. I use food to fuel my workouts. My 8 yr old daughter and I spend less than $800 a month on food. We very seldom dine out. I don't like the calories in restaurant food. I do not eat flour at all and we eat VERY few other grains. I also eat very little sugar. We eat vegetables, protein and a little fruit. We eat melon in the Spring. We eat apples in the Fall. We eat bananas and grapes year round. We eat almost all frozen vegetables. I buy a few vegetables fresh, but the nutrition is still REALLY high in frozen veggies and you don't have to worry about using up a huge amount of fresh produce before it goes to waste. We eat a lot of fish and even more chicken. I don't buy into the "organic" marketing either. If you can eat "real" food you are winning. Shop the perimeter of the grocery store and don't even go down the aisles. There isn't any real food there anyway.

I try not to waste food at all. Even the pumpkins that we used for decorations became soup, baked seeds and a vegetable side dish with chicken last night.

It's doable. I eat to live, I don't live to eat.