I think I've given up on ebay

[disneysteve]

I'm very sad to say this but I think I may be done with ebay for good. I was an "early adopter" who started selling on ebay in early 1997 when the service was just over a year old. By 2000, I was running 100 auctions at a time, all the time, and doing sales of as much as $3,000/month from my collectibles business. Just to put that in perspective, selling mail order prior to that, a good month might have been $50. A great collectibles show where we spent the whole day working our tables might have approached $1,000 in sales (with much higher overhead than on ebay). Ultimately, the collectibles shows almost entirely died out, replaced by ebay. Ebay was easier, simpler, cheaper, and far more lucrative. Rather than being limited to the few hundred buyers who came to a show, my items were seen by millions of people worldwide. Over the years, I've sold to buyers in virtually every state and almost every developed country. Ebay truly was a goldmine for small dealers like myself.

Today, sadly, ebay is a shadow of its former self. Everything that made it easy and cheap is gone. It went from being a friendly place for both buyers and sellers to a corporate conglomerate with endless regulations that seem to make no sense at all.

I just went on for the first time in months because I have two restaurant giftcards I wanted to sell. I took a nice clear picture of the cards and proceeded to try and list them only to get a pop up warning that it looked like I was trying to sell more than one card. Yes, I was. I was selling two. Apparently, that's against the rules now. You can only list one card per auction and you may only have one gift card auction running at a time. What kind of stupid rule is that? So I have two identical $25 cards for the same place. I'm not allowed to start an auction for both cards together. I'm also not allowed to start two separate auctions, one for each card. I can only list one card and then after that auction ends, I can then list the second card. No thanks.

I went to PlasticJungle.com, punched in the card info, and sold the cards instantly for $18.38 each. That's probably a couple dollars less than I would have netted on ebay but with zero hassle. It is done. Took about 5 minutes. No waiting for auctions to end. No hoping to get a customer for each card. Just mail them in and get my money.

It is really unfortunate what they allowed ebay to become. It was the greatest place to do business for many years. Now although I do buy there occasionally (bought something just a couple of weeks ago) selling has become insane. Very sad.

[MonkeyMama]

We had way too many buyers taking advantage of us and gave up about 2-3 years ago. It seems all power was given to buyers; none to sellers, around that time. The scammers came out in droves in that environment. We had absolutely no recourse, so stopped using ebay.

The stupid rules on top of it all were the icing on the cake. I don't remember the details, but they fixed postage on certain categories. Which often didn't cover the actual postage, and the rest of the time got complaints that the postage charged was far beyond actual postage. It's beyond annoying to get complaints and negative feedback for EBAY policies completely beyond our control.

We mostly sell video games, and those do very well on amazon. Thank goodness for all the gift card websites these days too - Plastic Jungle is a good one.

[disneysteve]

It seems all power was given to buyers; none to sellers, around that time. The scammers came out in droves in that environment. We had absolutely no recourse, so stopped using ebay.

True. The big thing was when they made it so that sellers could only leave positive feedback. I could no longer post a negative comment about a customer who didn't pay, lied, bounced a check, etc. What good is feedback if only positives are allowed?

they fixed postage on certain categories. Which often didn't cover the actual postage

Postage is another huge problem. Ebay has really pushed sellers to do free shipping. The problem is that shipping isn't free. It costs money, sometimes a lot of money. If you offer free shipping, you need to work that cost into the item cost, making it seem too expensive because customers don't look at the total price - just the item price.

This is actually a problem everywhere, not just on ebay. I have a friend who was in the retail business until just recently. He had to do online sales because the business demanded it, but postage was a huge problem. Amazon has convinced everyone that shipping should be free so anytime he tried to charge an amount that wasn't even close to his actual shipping cost, customers complained. He often lost money in the process. Ultimately, that and other related issues put him out of business. He simply couldn't compete with places like Amazon.

Honestly, I don't know how anyone can compete today. And I'm just as guilty as a consumer. I got a new iPhone last week. Rather than buying accessories in the store where I got the phone, I came home and ordered everything on Amazon and saved a bundle. A $21 car adapter was $3 online. A $15 charger was $2.50 online. $15 screen protectors were $6.00 online so I saved about $40 plus tax and everything had free shipping. How can you compete with that?

[joshuaking]

Hello Steve,

I can relate to so much of your post. 10 years ago, I used to be on ebay all the time, with 30-40 auctions running at all times. Now, it is so rare for me to even think about going there. Somewhere along the line, with all the regulations, and all the nickel and diming going on, and being forced to use paypal, I just stopped going to ebay. And I don't even think about them any more. A brand that was once so important to me is now not even registering in my consciousness for years on end.

I realize I'm just one person, and they are a huge conglomerate, but I wonder if this has affected their bottom line, or if they are just too big to care. It could be like Facebook-as soon as someone comes out with a social network that respects its users and gives them real choices about their privacy, I'll bet people will leave Facebook in droves.

And if a new auction site treats customers well and charges fair prices, I'll bet ebay could be left in the dust.

I am going to check out the auction site you recommended.

Best regards,

Joshua

[siggy_freud]

True. The big thing was when they made it so that sellers could only leave positive feedback. I could no longer post a negative comment about a customer who didn't pay, lied, bounced a check, etc. What good is feedback if only positives are allowed?

What? That's insane. I didn't know they changed that. In the early days I had a deadbeat buyer who didn't pay. I got his contact information, emailed him, mailed, him, AND left a message on his phone number, and he never got back to me. Not only that, he left ME negative feedback for not selling him the item, when after a week of no reply (despite saying in the listing things needed to be paid in 48 hours) I sold it as a second chance offer to bidder #2. I put a complaint in with ebay, and it essentially boiled down to if I wanted to pay 30 bucks to remove the negative feedback. I said "forget it," went about my business, and a few months later the buyer was banned from ebay, as my complaint was part of a long list. Eventually the negative feedback disappeared, though my % rating has never changed from 98 (or whatever it is) back to 100%.

[Wino]

I'm the other side of the coin. I was never a seller on eBay, but I remember telling folks to buy eBay stock when they went public. Anyway, I've been a buyer for years, and recently used it for the first time since like 2007.

I prefer Amazon. Everything is now "buy it now," which means no more auctions. I was also ripped off twice by sellers selling counterfeit goods (around 2002 or 2004), and once by a seller who merely wouldn't sell at the price I won the auction at (same time frame).

Lastly, I hate PayPal.

[bUU]

Also only ever a buyer, and I have to say, right from the start, I never thought eBay was a good idea. I saw how it could make its owners some good money for a while, but a disintegration like that which the earlier posters in the thread alluded to was inevitable from my perspective.

Buyers are not going to lower their expectations of quality service for a mostly-anonymous individual as seller. I remember seeing, time and time again, buyers expressing outrage that some eBay seller was treating them worse than Macy's (now: Amazon.com). Society has fostered an innately-entitled buyers' ethic of expectation (for eBay, but also in general), expecting high quality for everything - the buying experience, customer service, returns policy, etc., with the eBay-related price reduction attributable not to any compromise with regard to quality, but rather attributable only to the lack of "selling power" of the seller - the fact that the sellers were mostly-anonymous individuals gave many buyers the foundation for their expectation that they should be able to get the Cadillac for the price of the VW.

From a typical buyer's perspective, the base case for how personal individual seller-to-buyer sales work is eye-to-eye, the buyer getting the instinctual feeling for the seller based on their own feeling of confidence that they are good judges of character, and based on the fact that they have the product being purchased in hand, can see its condition right there-and-then, and can be sure that once they pay their money they can walk away with the product. In that eye-to-eye scenario, the buyer may take on a reasonable amount of responsibility for their own later disappointment. With a wall put between the buyer and seller (the website), that responsibility has no place to go except on to the sellers. After all (in the minds of the buyers), it was the sellers who decided to sell things this way, such that buyers couldn't directly judge the seller's character by instinct; it was the sellers who decided to sell things this way such that the buyers couldn't judge the quality of the product through direct inspection at the time of sale; it was the sellers who decided to sell things this way such that the buyers couldn't take responsibility to taking custody of the product being purchased in-the-moment. The buyer is going to naturally attach any level of disappointment they feel to a failure of the rating system to give them a good enough basis to perceive the reliability and worth of the seller's service, and use that mechanism to assuage their frustration.

There are myriad examples of consumer behavior in our society that don't seem fair or rational from the outside looking in. Buyers often act like their spending money is paramount in every transaction - that bringing the cash to the table means they dictate terms, rather than entering into a transaction where both sides need to agree to terms. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

[disneysteve]

Buyers are not going to lower their expectations of quality service for a mostly-anonymous individual as seller.

That's an interesting observation. Maybe it is because I've been both a buyer and a seller but I never felt that way. As a lifelong regular at yard sales, flea markets, auctions, and collectibles shows, I always considered ebay to just be an online version of those things. I always assumed that I was dealing with someone similar to myself, a private individual who was selling on ebay as a casual endeavor or maybe a side business. I never had any expectation that service on ebay would match that of a major national retailer.

Ebay used to be called the world's largest garage sale and I always approached it as just that. When I go to a garage sale, I don't expect the same customer service I expect at the mall. These aren't professional retailers. These are folks unloading their kids' old toys and unwanted household items. I don't expect items to be in perfect condition. I don't expect to be able to come back later and return the item if I'm not happy with it.

Personally, I think what killed ebay was the steadily rising fees. I happen to really like Paypal as it eliminates the risk of bad checks, but it also added another layer of fees to the transaction. The other problem, which isn't ebay's fault, was rising postage rates. I sold mostly lower end items but as postage rose, it became unfeasible to sell those items. Nobody wants to pay $10 for an item and then another $6 to ship it.

So I think a number of issues, some ebay's own doing, some not, gradually eroded their business. It is still a good service for buyers and maybe for professional sellers, but casual sellers like myself have really been shut out of the process at this point.

[bUU]

Ebay used to be called the world's largest garage sale and I always approached it as just that. When I go to a garage sale, I don't expect the same customer service I expect at the mall.

However, again, remember that at a garage sale you expect to be able to look the other person in the eye, chat them up to gain insight into their character, touch the specific item you're planning on buying, do your best to assess its quality and reliability ("I would like to plug it in to make sure it works"), etc. We cannot just dismiss the impact of those differences, out of hand.

[disneysteve]

However, again, remember that at a garage sale you expect to be able to look the other person in the eye, chat them up to gain insight into their character, touch the specific item you're planning on buying, do your best to assess its quality and reliability ("I would like to plug it in to make sure it works"), etc. We cannot just dismiss the impact of those differences, out of hand.

True, but for years, ebay did quite well despite that being the case so I think something else impacted that success besides just buyers' attitudes though that certainly may have been part of it.

I also think part of the problem was that when ebay was young, most users were people like me, folks who frequented yard sales and auctions already. We think differently than folks who do all of their shopping at traditional bricks and mortar stores. We're used to dealing with strangers, no customer service, a lower level of trust. That's just the nature of the business. Once ebay became more mainstream and "regular" people started using it, I think that's when the attitude you refer to became an issue. Folks not used to those types of transactions didn't understand ebay. They expected it to be like their local mall. I think that's where you are absolutely right.

[bUU]

The same thing happened with the Internet in general. I was online in the early 1980s, through a research center I worked in. It was a very safe, respectful, informative venue. Then AOL opened up the door to the Internet to everyone and anyone, with no appreciable accountability to their gateway in, and the nature of the place radically changed (for the worse).

I suppose everything is like that. Ask a local in Key West what it was like there before tourism really took off - they'll wax poetically about many aspects (while probably ignoring, as we are, the positive aspects for those who benefit from the current arrangement).

[Gailete]

I've been trying to say this about ebay for awhile on the different threads here on making money on-line. People ask about how to make money and those who apparently have never used ebay lately, suggest ebay. Ebay has changed greatly and not for the better! I stopped selling there 4 years ago. In Jan 2009 I turned off my store with over 6000 listings and but all my energy into my store at ecrater.com. Now I sell using a combo of ecrater and Amazon and am selling without any hassle from either of them for the most part.

We do have buyers, and this happens at all venues, that refuse to read the entire listing and buy things with the hopeful wish that they will transform in transit to something brand new that they want. I had a buyer this year buy one of my sewing patterns with a note on her PP payment asking for it in a size I didn't have advertised and her language made me suspect she thought she was buying an actual coat, not a coat pattern. I tried to contact her but she never got back to me so I shipped her pattern that she had bought. When she recieved it, boy did I hear from her even though I had sent her 2 emails about it that she hadn't responded to. She was mad that she got a pattern and not an actual coat and was sure hoping the OTHER coat she bought from me wouldn't be a 'pattern'. HMMM for the $12 cost she though she would get two brand new coats since the pattern envelope was showing 2 styles. Note that the title of the listing started with Butterick sewing pattern, and the description also started with Butterick sewing pattern, the picture showed a sewing pattern, there was nothing about the listing that someone that was actually reading would be able to mistake the pattern listed for an actual item of clothing. This happens to me several times a year! Folks write and ask for the blue dress. One guy asked if he would need to alter the tuxedo Other sellers report getting negatives because the item that was sold as used was used One person bought a sweater from a store that sells 'ugly sweaters' and gave the seller a negative because it was ugly and didn't fit.

Those of us at ecrater when we get a stupid feedback can have it removed, but unfortunately on ebay they won't for things just as stupid. I was reading on a digest last night that ebay took down a seller's listing because they had the word 'mod' in their title. According to ebay mod is for the exclusive use of Modcloth. Apparently ebay forgets the Mod squad, mod podge, mod, disco and everything else going on 40 years ago! But this is the arrogance of company that hires stupid CS reps who don't know anything including the fact that one of ebay's own categories includes "mod, disco" items! Ebay constantly changes the rules and no matter what they say, they are never in favor of the seller. If you want to sell on line, go elsewhere and there are lots of places to sell on. Ebay is no longer the only choice.

Selling on line is still a viable way to make money, not necessarily full time income although some do, but for someone like me that was to work around health issues, it has been a God send in allowing me to get some occupational therapy and some needed money for the housefold. My hands are so stiff every morning and using the keyboard to check on business, etc. helps liber them up and also gives me a reason to get out of bed. Not everyone has those types of needs, but it sure has worked for me!

[moneybags]

I used to be a big ebay seller for many years. Now I occasionally sell things from the house that we no longer need. If I can get a better price on ebay than selling at a garage sale, sometimes it is worth the effort, despite the fact that I am not a fan of all the ebay changes.

In terms of postage, they even ding you by charging you a fee for what you collect in postage. I think their intent is to stop the people that were overcharging on postage to avoid fees.

I think ebay changed their focus from the little guy to the big guy. Many big stores/brands use ebay as their outlet store. I noticed ToysRUS and Jockey selling on ebay, and I'm sure there are more.

[disneysteve]

If you want to sell on line, go elsewhere and there are lots of places to sell on. Ebay is no longer the only choice.

Do you know of any good sites for selling collectible items? I mainly deal in Disney memorabilia but also some other assorted stuff.

[disneysteve]

I think ebay changed their focus from the little guy to the big guy. Many big stores/brands use ebay as their outlet store. I noticed ToysRUS and Jockey selling on ebay, and I'm sure there are more.

That's exactly what happened. It went from being a garage sale to being an outlet store.