Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

[sarah]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

One of the things that really upsets me about the minimium wage are all of the job categories that are excluded from it. Wait Staff, agricultural migrant workers and many domestic workers are excluded from it. The original justification fo rthis was that these jobs were originally held (and many still are held) by non-white minorities.

Also several million Americans are trying to raise children on minimium wage jobs. These jobs are not just held by people choosing to work part time or teenagers. Anybody trying to raise a child on this income is going to have to skimp on food not to mention heat and health care. 1 in 4 American children are chronically hungry and the minimium wage is a good part of the reason.

[fairy74]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Excellent point Sarah-it is tragic that in a country with this kind of money there are still children and adults going without food, heat and healthcare!

[bjl584]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Use caution in believing statistics like that. The Federal Governments defenition of "hungry" is someone that has missed one meal in the past 30 days. Also, there aren't several million people living on minimum wage. The amount of working Americans earning minimum wage is only 2%. Of those, most are part time teenagers, semi retired seniors, or people with second jobs. There is a lot more to the whole story than what is just on the surface. Peoples' first reaction is to feel bad for the "millions" living in poverty, but there is much more to it when you start to look into things. Of course, that tends to be a big problem; most people feel instead of think. No offense to anyone here. It just bothers me when peoples' gut reaction is to feel bad without taking a step back to do some research on the subject, get all the facts straight, and come to a rational conclusion as to the root causes of the actual problem.

[vsjhoc]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

It just bothers me when peoples' gut reaction is to feel bad without taking a step back to do some research on the subject, get all the facts straight, and come to a rational conclusion as to the root causes of the actual problem.

OK, I'll bite, what are the root causes of the actual problem? (Uh oh. I've started an OT political discussion.)

[tinapbeana]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

2% of 300 million people is 6 million, which qualifies as 'millions'.

of those, sure some are teenagers (who are hopefully saving for school), semi-retired seniors (of whom many pay several hundred per month for medications), or people with second jobs (who likely have a 2nd job because their first job isn't paying enough). and some of those 6 million people aren't teens, seniors, or moonlighters: some of 'em just make cruddy pay.

i'm not trying to react emotionally, i'm simply saying it is next to impossible to raise, say, a family of 4 on twice the minimum wage without having to seek assistance from elsewhere/get a second job/what have you. much less raise a family, pay off debt, save for a house, save for retirement, and save for your kids' college (all the things that are considered signs of a fiscally responsible adult).

[abowers]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

honestly, who can imagine living as an individual and being able to save and care for yourself long-term at say $9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)? this is double the poverty line, but could you honestly survive at that in say NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, LA, etc? i lived in SC on $11.25/hour and contributed 5% to my 401k, and it was beyond hard...

I made it last year, living an hour south of NYC in central NJ - making $10.25/hr and working full time + some overtime whenever I could. But I cut way back on expenses like eating out, buying clothes, etc.

And a side note -- NJ's min. wage is now up to $6.15. Not that that helps things, because when you raise minimum wage the cost of things goes up too.

Anywho, in Central NJ jobs like Barnes and Noble start paying around $7.50/hr (that was last August) Not sure about the food industry.

[bjl584]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Too many causes to list here. It would take forever. I don't have that long. We could go round and round about this for the rest of our lives. Anyway, basically, here are my thoughts on minimum wage. People should not depend on minimum wage to make a living. They certainly shouldn't depend on the government to come along and give them a raise either. Making $5.15 an hour should be your incentive to go out and better yourself with more education, more experience, more everything all in an ongoing attempt to make yourself more marketable and to make your life and the lives of those around you better so that you don't have to survive on that type of income. Starting out making low income is a good place to start and a good way to learn the value of a dollar and to learn some work ethic, but you shouldn't stop there and be content. Go out, work hard, educate yourself, better yourself, and make a living. Sure, some people lose their jobs and end up in low paying jobs for one reason or another. If I was one of those people, I would do everything humanly possible to get back on my feet, and get out of the hole that I found myself in. I would be dammed if I just sat there content with making no money and waiting for the government to come along and raise the minimum wage for me. I would improvise and overcome, or at least die trying. There is always a way to succeed if you only want it bad enough and are willing to make the sacrifice and put in the hard work to achieve your goals. Don't just sit there and complain or be content. That's just a recipe for failure. Blame our instant gratification society, blame the uninformed puplic, blame our deminishing work ethic. The reasons for things are complicated and endless. I'm just saying that I would and do fight tooth and nail everyday to succeed and to make something of myself. I never settle. That's just how I was brought up. I think that too many people are taught early on that everything bad that happens in their lives are someone elses fault, that they'll never succeed, and that they should be happy with what they have. Not me.

[disneysteve]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

when you raise minimum wage the cost of things goes up too.

This is what a lot of people seem to forget. If I run a business and the government comes in and says I need to start paying my employees an extra dollar or two per hour, that money has to come from somewhere. It can come from accepting a lower profit from the business, meaning my own pay goes down. It can come from raising the cost of my goods or services, which could result in lower sales and make the business less successful. It can come from reducing other benefits that I offer to my employees. It can come by me downsizing my staff so I can afford to raise the salaries of the people I keep. But the money has to come from somewhere.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Ah. The thread that started me living off CA minimum wage ($6.75) is back up and running.

honestly, who can imagine living as an individual and being able to save and care for yourself long-term at say $9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)? this is double the poverty line, but could you honestly survive at that in say NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, LA, etc? i lived in SC on $11.25/hour and contributed 5% to my 401k, and it was beyond hard...

I don't want to get into the politics of this. I believe the answer is in the middle: people need to be paid a fair wage for work and have access to affordable health care, and many people (of all income levels) would be much better off scaling down the consumption driven lifestyle that is almost unique to the US in its excess. We expect, use, and are not grateful for, so very much.

I am half of a couple who splits finances down the middle. My largest expense is $400 in rent so I decided to try the Challenge. (Even if I was single, it is very possible in my town, Eureka, to get a studio or apartment that is very decent for less than $500.)

I am in a more rural area, so it is more doable. In some larger areas, like ones mentioned above, they have passed living wage laws....NYC gets $10/hr, LA is $8.32 with health insurance or $9.46 without, Chicago is $10.

I am spending less than half of my net right now. I am in month nine, going until the end of February. I know that for me it's a choice and time limited, and for others lower income is not. When My Challenge ends I will continue to have a lot of compassion for those with little income, and I will continue to try to be a good steward of resources and ensure that I spend carefully and don't fall into the "need it want it buy it" trap.

[simpleselu]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

I could do it but we'd have to scale back to positively screaming tight penny-pinching. After rent and car we'd only have $160 to pay for gas, electric, lights and food... but that's assuming one of us is not working. If we both here 40/hrs at $5.15 we could do it, and we've done it for many years.

[rob62521]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Reading this book was the reason I left my job as a library director and took a job with the library system headquarters. We read it as a book club book and I realized while reading it and discussing it (with a couple of board members in the club!) that if something ever happened to my husband there is no way that I would even begin to be able to make it on what I was making there. I had no benefits (besides 6 vacation days a year) and was being paid $7 an hour. With 5 kids all still home at that time it was impossible. So when the System job came up I jumped at it.

The book was a good wake up call.

I think you are very wise to think ahead. We have friends that although one spouse makes decent money, the other really does not and if something would happen the spouse with the good pay, the other could not make it and even keep up with the expenses they have incurred.

[rob62521]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

honestly, though, it's not about the minimum wage is or what it should be, it's the thoughts of making an actual living at

$6 per hour ($12480 gross/yr)
$7 per hour ($14560 gross/yr)
$8 per hour ($16640 gross/yr)
$9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)
$10 per hour ($20800 gross/yr)

honestly, who can imagine living as an individual and being able to save and care for yourself long-term at say $9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)? this is double the poverty line, but could you honestly survive at that in say NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, LA, etc? i lived in SC on $11.25/hour and contributed 5% to my 401k, and it was beyond hard...

I just did some figuring, and my mom drew less social security than what minimum wage is. She worked minimum wage jobs and although she did some have some savings when she retired, because she drew so little, expenses ate the savings. She was very frugal, but even at that, we were paying some of her bills to get her through.

[tinapbeana]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

I just did some figuring, and my mom drew less social security than what minimum wage is. She worked minimum wage jobs and although she did some have some savings when she retired, because she drew so little, expenses ate the savings. She was very frugal, but even at that, we were paying some of her bills to get her through.

what saddens me is that the 'poverty line' (actually poverty guidelines or poverty threshold depending on which gov't branch you're dealing with) is usually the same no matter what the persons age. there's one gov't branch that has a different amount for those over 65, but it's not that much different. i know my grandparents have about a grand worth of medications every month, and while that might be an extreme example i would imagine it's pretty normal for a large portion of any senior's 'income' to go straight to meds.

[shelbylovesmelby]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

honestly, though, it's not about the minimum wage is or what it should be, it's the thoughts of making an actual living at

$6 per hour ($12480 gross/yr)
$7 per hour ($14560 gross/yr)
$8 per hour ($16640 gross/yr)
$9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)
$10 per hour ($20800 gross/yr)

honestly, who can imagine living as an individual and being able to save and care for yourself long-term at say $9 per hour ($18720 gross/yr)? this is double the poverty line, but could you honestly survive at that in say NYC, Atlanta, Chicago, LA, etc? i lived in SC on $11.25/hour and contributed 5% to my 401k, and it was beyond hard...

I lived in sec 8 housing, supporting my mom while making $6 an hr, & went to tech school full time. There was no savings... 401k? Couldn't really afford to contribute, heck didn't even know what it was when it was finally offered. So that was no fun til I landed the big bucks making $7.50 when I was 21! That's just it w/ the costs of living you can't afford to save for the future just keeping the bills current is enough!

[amberfocus]

Re: Challenge::Live on $5.15 an hour::

Okay, single 22-year-old from Connecticut chiming in...

Monthly net (after 8% taxes): $820-ish

Housing (rent) - $500
Student loans - $190 ($23K over 15 years)
Utilities (gas/electric/internet/cell) - $90
Groceries - $60

Total: $840

Conclusion? This is not possible. I'm $20 in the RED (this is worse than living paycheck to paycheck!), and NONE of my expenses are negotiable.

I'm already living with a roommate and rent is only cheaper in scary, crime-infested ghettos, or if you squeeze four to a house (possible, I suppose, but hardly pleasant). I'm a vegetarian home cook, so my food expense is already bottomed out. I can put my loans on forbearance, but that's a temporary solution, at best.

Keep in mind that my expenses does not (and CANNOT) include:

- HEALTH/DENTAL INSURANCE (mine is free, but others are not so lucky)
- car-related expenses (I live in a city, and there are free shuttles to work)
- supporting dependents (oh dear sweet god have mercy no!)
- clothing, common household items
- RETIREMENT
- anything fun/frivolous (including pets, entertainment)
- anything in case of emergency
- any period without income

Seriously. LOOK at that list. THINK about it. It's TERRIFYING.

The fact that most people on a frugal-living board cannot live on federal minimum wage is REALLY SAYING SOMETHING about the state of minimum wage. For me, I am fully convinced that most of the people who are living on minimum wage and are not making it are *not* failing because they are "doing something wrong."

I really hope that minimum wage gets raised. It's ludicrous.

best,
~mimi