Estate planning

[cpparrot]

A recent death of a friend has got me thinking I need to get my act together in regards to estate planning. Does anyone have experience writing a will or other relevant documents through the online documents services? Is it worth it to see an attorney to do the same thing? If so, how much should I expect to pay for this service?


A few details about me that might be relevant, I am 40yrs old. I have been with my partner for 4 years, but the state I reside in does not recognize same sex unions. Most of our assets are in my name.

[jpg7n16]

I tend to view online do-it-yourself wills as the webmd of legal advice. Yes it can have some good info, yes it may in fact be exactly what you're looking for. But no, you should not stop seeing your doctor because you read an article on webmd - there may be a completely different diagnosis that an experienced doctor would recognize that you would not.

Same goes for online wills and trusts - sure it could work out, but I'd rather just go to a lawyer in the first place.

The Problem with LegalZoom — Texas Wills and Trusts Law Online

http://altmanassociates.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/Dangers_HD1.pdf

Especially in your case where you are having to deal with a non-traditional lifestyle choice. The laws could vary significantly by state for wills, and you should definitely speak to an estate attorney in your area to ensure your plans are made legal.

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Also consider this: say you determined that you needed a trust to ensure your partner had income for life to be taken care of. Great. You know you need a trust. And online sites have trust documents. So, which trust best suits your needs?

Revocable or Irrevocable?
QTIP Trust
Power of Appointment Trust
Bypass trust
Charitable Remainder Annuity Trust
Charitabel Remainder Unitrust
Pooled income fund
Charitable lead trust
2503(b)
2503(c)
Crummey Trust
Irrevocable Life insurance trust

Do you know enough to know which type you're getting if you use say legalzoom? They have a living trust, but does it do what you want?


My point is, even if you were able to get the document created, do you know enough to know that it was the right document for you?

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How much will it cost? That depends on how complicated your estate situation is. (Ex-spouse? yes it happens to others in your situation, children?, adopted children?, dependent family members?, etc.) The more complicated the situation gets, the more costly the legal services are.

You can expect at least a couple hundred to have an attorney prepare a will - and make sure it's an estate attorney.

[JoshuaHeckathorn]

Go with an estate attorney. It won't be cheap, but this is the kind of stuff you want to do right the first time. A full estate plan (will, trust, power of attorney, health care directive, etc.) will probably cost about $2,000, but the fees can really be all over the board depending upon where you live and how complicated your situation is.

[cpparrot]

Thank you for the detailed replies. I have no clue as to the difference between the trusts you listed out. It will help me convince my partner we need to meet with an estate attorney. I plan on finding one that has knowledge of LGBT issues. There are several within an hour drive.

Our situation is not very complicated. No ex-spouses, no children or other dependents. I am not sure what else to consider.

Any other advice would be appreciated. I am very glad I decided to post on here. I asked around between work and friends and received mostly blank stares.

[SnoopyCool]

Having just lost my FIL, here's two things I've learned that I'm comfortable enough with to share:

-See an attorney. As illustrated in above posts, every situation in unique and needs attention by a professional.
-Go ahead and make sure that your bank accounts are Payable on Death to whomever you wish to leave them to. This makes those accounts tax-free to them on your death, and they avoid probate.

HTH

[nick__45]

Having just lost my FIL, here's two things I've learned that I'm comfortable enough with to share:

-See an attorney. As illustrated in above posts, every situation in unique and needs attention by a professional.
-Go ahead and make sure that your bank accounts are Payable on Death to whomever you wish to leave them to. This makes those accounts tax-free to them on your death, and they avoid probate.

HTH

If you know what you want as far as who gets what, then it's useless to get a lawyer that would love to drag it out and taxes the top. Just keep it simple and let your spouse and kids get everything, evenly divided, or give them a option to negiotiate among themselves. For example, if you have 2 kids and one of them want to keep the vacation house then he should have an option of compensating the other sibling for the other half or they can have joint ownership with joint financial responsibility to keep it in good shape. If you bring a lawyer into it, you'll be seeing fees to sell it, process money/proceed, and more.

Whatever you do, don't give money to charities or friends or even a relative in your will. If your family see fit, they'll give to them but don't drag an outsider into the mess. Spouse, kids, and siblings are the only people who should get your money.

[MonkeyMama]

I am a tax professional and see SO MANY unintended consquences when proper legal advice is not sought.

I recently replied in another thread that the one thing I would never scrimp on is legal advice.

I would say this to ANY ONE.

Considering your situation, it is extra so.

It won't be cheap, but you will save your loves ones time and money if you do it right. I generally see these online wills as extremely penny wise and pound foolish. I think it's hard to appreciate the cost of this type legal advice because you generally will never see the benefits of a good estate plan and the downfalls of a bad one. But, believe me, your loved ones will be there - and a bad estate plan can really make their life hell.

[Wildwood282]

Revocable Trust

I currently have a revocable trust. My wife is listed as trustee when I cease to act as trustee. If my wife would die my three children are listed on "trustee succession" section with my oldest son listed as trustee and my other two sons listed as co-trustees. I am told that a trust should also list my wife and three sons as beneficiaries on the trust documents. Comments and/or advice appreciated. Thanks!

[maryadavies]

As I've hinted; me and my 2 brothers and 1 sister living in my mom's house are reaping the result of someone NOT planning ahead; Mom didn't do ANY estate planning before the side effects of the chemo got her. We have had some problems with even getting me and Sis's disability money because of this b/c Chase is stupid. (They'd say we could do something, like lock Mom's account so the disability money would bounce (and go to another account), but they didn't and can't do anything without a death certificate..Which is due next month due to GA red tape. So this month's disability is locked away from us until we go though probate. And they won't even fix the frikkin' error. /kick)

I would wholeheartedly recommend that people DO think about it and do some estate planning/get a will before that kinda bovine fecal material happens. I know me and my siblings's situation is kinda unique and is prolly pretty rare, but think of your heirs, please. ^^

[Esozh]

Lawyers in my area are $150 an hour for this type of work, so expect up to $300 an hour if your on a coast. Some lawyers do flat rate services for things like this too. Also, if you have a good deal of assets, consider meeting a financial planner. Different financial instruments are treated drastically differently at death.

Make sure you have an advanced directive and power of attorney on file with your local hospital. My ex wife died at 29 and no one could get copies of her medical records without going through the court system.

Almost all financial accounts should have a beneficiary able to be listed. Do so. Uncle Sam will take his share, the state theirs, and the county court theirs before your partner gets the leftovers if your estate sees probate.

[snafu]

Suggestions to clarify your and SO's thinking in advance of seeking an appoint with a lawyer.

Have you & SO created an ICE [In Case of Emergency] binder? Detailed into is available on-line but details of all financial data, account numbers, contact number/person. Detailed contact information to reach important individuals.
Listing and contact details for individuals listed as beneficiaries of any insurance or asset.
Eventually includes;Copies of Legal directives, Power of Attorney [personal, property, enduring], Will, Executor of Estate, Directives

Creating a Will is important for every adult even with the simplest of assets like a bank account, life insurance, auto etc.

With all the nasty things that can happen like horrors of Boston, Aurora, flooding, car crashes...you need a Will

Using the on-line forms [many are free] will help you clarify your thinking. It's not any more gruesome than doing income tax. Failing to have a Will and Living Directive hands over assets and decisions to 'officialdom.' I promise you don't want to do that!

If you haven't assigne beneficiaries to your assets like bank a/cs, investment a/cs etc. do that first thing Monday morning.

Power of Attorney {POA} forms for Personal Care and Property/Financial Assets are available on-line and so long as your signature has been witnesses [stamped] by a Commission of Oaths In my experience banks each have their own POA forms and want these used if you're authorizing someone else on your a/c. Banks have a nasty habit of freezing a/c to add bureaucracy to an already emotional, horrid situation.

In preparing a Will you want to imagine future events. We started with Executor. It helps to list assets in vague terms like Primary Residence listing current [legal] address but adding weasel words like 'future primary residence' for example. List current Insurance policies specifically Insurer, policy type and number but include 'any subsequent policies' weasel words. You get the idea.

DH and I used bought at the stationary store Legal Directives forms to help us clarify our thinking about medical decisions and long term care should we become incapacitated. It was the most difficult part.

Have an attorney who specializes in Wills and Directives advise you on all the tiny details that relate to your locations and specific circumstances. Add copies to your ICE file, important document file and copy to Executor.

[~bs]

you need an attorney. I noticed on this forum people seem reluctant to pay for professional advice and seem to subscribe to the "1 size fit all" "do it yourself" theory of investing, tax, and legal advice. Sometimes you can get away with it, but other times, it will come back to screw you many times over.

[sblatner]

I suggest you use an online site (hopefully free) to get your ducks in a row and then take the information to an attorney for the official documents. That way, you will hopefully know what questions the attorney is going to need information for and you can provide them without a lot of going back and forth. I think this will make the whole situation cheaper.

I used to be a probate paralegal and remember clients coming and then going with not a lot accomplished because they had so many decisions to make.

I believe only direct family members can make decisions in a hospital unless there is a power of attorney for healthcare in place. If you live in a state where same sex unions are not recognized, your SO probably won't be able to make decisions for you in a hospital and vice versa.

Getting a will/trust is so important. It is worth the money to make sure you and your SO are taken care of.

[QuarterMillionMan]

Not spam but this was an ad in the LA Times recently. As for me I went with Quicken Will Maker & Revocable Trust for $53. I figured that anything was better than nothing.


I'm editing my post above. Why pay a lawyer $2000 when you can get the same product for a fraction of the cost. I liken it to generic vs. brand name drugs. You'll get the same thing for a lot less cost. For all I know the $699 Living Trust advertisement below probably uses some kind of similar software to that of other living trusts/will making software but with a markup of an additional $649. Also, depending on the complexities of an individuals circumstances a lawyer may or may not be the better choice. Another major factor in considering using a lawyer instead of using store bought software would be the individual's net worth. If a person is worth millions of dollars then yes a lawyer would probably be your best bet. In my case my net worth is about $300,000 so the do-it-yourself software sufficed. Should I be fortunate and attain a million dollar net worth some day I would definitely see a lawyer.

[MonkeyMama]

In my case my net worth is about $300,000 so the do-it-yourself software sufficed. Should I be fortunate and attain a million dollar net worth some day I would definitely see a lawyer.
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Actually, just owning real estate is a huge reason to have an estate and a trust. In the state I live in, probate costs a fortune compared to a simple estate plan. Also, relatives can not sell the home until it goes through the court process. In the past decade this means that house lost large amounts of value during the court process. Real estate goes up and down, but imagine taking years to go through probate and get a house sold when you can wrap it up in just weeks with a simple trust. The emotional toll of caring for an abandoned house and dealing with all this is more troubling than the financial aspects. (I don't think any one of my clients who cried on my shoulder about probate gave a flip about the lost value of the home - was just an added complication).

Just to clarify that the amount of worth really has nothing to do with it. If you have no kids, no real estate, and are young and have few assets, then it is what it is. But something as simple as owning a home can significantly complicate your estate plan.

But just to clarify, yeah, I think most of the worst estate planning stuff I have seen came down to small net worths. People with higher net worths tend to take it more seriously.