Anyone have an on-demand water heater?

[disneysteve]

I think I asked this a while ago but thought I'd bring it up again. Does anyone have an on-demand water heater? We need to replace our traditional tank heater and I was wondering if these are worth the higher up front cost. I have not gotten any estimates yet so I don't know what the actual numbers look like.

[bjl584]

I looked into one of these as well, but living alone, there really isn't a lot of demand for hot water, and my utilities are already low. So, the upfront cost for one of these wasn't really worth it to me.

[disneysteve]

There are 3 of us so plenty of showering, hair washing (those 2 long-haired women of mine), clothes washing and dish washing. I'm wondering if the high efficiency of the on-demands are worth the cost. I'm sure the tank heaters are already much more efficient than they were when we got our current one.

[krantcents]

I think I asked this a while ago but thought I'd bring it up again. Does anyone have an on-demand water heater? We need to replace our traditional tank heater and I was wondering if these are worth the higher up front cost. I have not gotten any estimates yet so I don't know what the actual numbers look like.

When my water heater needed to be replaced a few years ago, I asked my plumber about it. He talked me out it. The cost was 3-4 times the cost of a conventional water heater. My gas bill which represents hot water, cooking and heat is very low. It is the benefit of living in southern California. It would take me a very long time to get my investment back.

[disneysteve]

Our gas bill is relatively high but most of that is for heat, not hot water. I'll have to do some research and see if the cost differential has narrowed.

[MonkeyMama]

I suppose it depends on the individual circumstances, but I do not think on-demand is worth the money. Our home came with a new energy-efficient tank heater with an insulation wrap (2001). IT is heated by gas, and costs hardly anything to run. In the summer, maybe $5/month. Colder months I'd estimate $10-$15/month for hot water (hard to estimate since we use gas furnace). We have ours set very low, and it is scalding hot. We set it to "warm" in the summer, which produces plenty HOT water for cooking and comfortable showers. We turn it up a tad for fall/spring and a tad more for winter.

There are 4 of us and hot water is not something we really scrimp on. Dh and I both like long hot showers!

As with anything, there seems to be plenty of better/cheaper alternatives than the most extreme/popular energy saving devices. We have an Energy Star home and I can point out a handful of more cost effective alternatives to popular energy savings products. The hot water heater has been the most notable. I'd suggest an insulation wrap though. That has proved to be an inexpensive energy saver.

[disneysteve]

We'll probably go with a high-efficiency tank heater and wrap, as you have MM. Just figured I'd check out the alternatives.

[Scanner]

Let me preface this by saying I am not an energy specialist and am still doing my own research. . .but you live in NJ, right?

Why not look into Solar Water heat? NJ has the best rebates around for solar and the cost recoup for solar water heat is much easier to recoup than for solar electric.

My father put in a solar water heater during Jimmy Carter ( back when the US thought it was a good idea to have an energy program ), based on tax incentives back then, and the sucker was supposed to last 25 years and is still going 30 years later.

I think (don't quote me) an average solar water heat is 3K to 6K vs. 25K for solar electric.

[snafu]

We have lived in China where on-demand water heaters is the only system available. They are v/efficient and inexpensive to operate but they require the user to be organized. Yes, you can leave them 'on' 24/7 but the genuine efficiency is to turn on 10-12 minutes in advance of use, turn off when you are finished. If you're a shower people there's adequate hot water. In China most people use laundry service. We all had washing machines [installed in the bathrm] but used cold water wash for all but sheets and towels as that is our practice at home. I noticed locals had washing machines installed on balconies with only cold water available.

I hated the water heater in the kitchen as it was installed so high on the wall, I needed to climb on a chair to use it! No dishwasher; it was more efficient to heat water in an electric kettle for clean-up. If I had to replace my water heater, I too would buy an energy efficient tank. You can lower gas costs by lowering water temperature if no one is home all day and turn it up when you return. Check your dishwasher's manual for the ideal temperature for your machine, over 125F/51C cause scalding.

[graceful]

Our home included the on-demand water heater already when we purchased it. I like it because it doesn't take up much space in the basement and the water is HOT and plentiful. We actually had to lower the temperature because it was scalding hot.

It does take a few seconds to heat up when no one has been using it for a long while but I don't really notice it too much because even with water tank heater, it takes a few seconds for the really hot water to run through the pipes from the tank to the taps.

The hot water doesn't "run out" but I have noticed (especially in the winter) that I don't want to take a shower if someone else is showering in the other bathroom or if I am running a load in the dishwasher, etc. The water isn't as steaming HOT as I like it when I have to "share." But since we only have 4 people in the family, with only one DD12 who takes forever in the bathroom, I can work around everyone else.

I only noticed this problem in the winter maybe because I don't need the water to be almost scalding hot in the summer.

Not sure about the energy savings. But since we use oil, the liquid gold, for heating and I "think" the water in heated with electricity (?), we must be saving money there.

Hmmm, maybe that is the reason that the previous homeowners had it set to such a HIGH temperature when we bought the house that we had to lower it for fear of burning ourselves. Maybe I'll have DH raise it again this winter to see it that solves the temperature of the water when 2 people are showering at once...

[kork13]

We have lived in China where on-demand water heaters is the only system available. They are v/efficient and inexpensive to operate but they require the user to be organized. Yes, you can leave them 'on' 24/7 but the genuine efficiency is to turn on 10-12 minutes in advance of use, turn off when you are finished.

It's the same here in Japan, on-demand systems are the standard. Personally, I think it's a fabulous system, and I'm amazed that such a common-sense energy solution hasn't taken greater hold in the US. I just turn it on 3-5 minutes before my shower or however I need it, and have plenty of hot water. It's a small (~3gal) tank, but heats very quickly--I've never run out of hot water while showering or whatever else. Plus, the temperature is adjustable right there, just like an air conditioner's thermostat. Just to try it out, I kept it on full-time the first month I was here, then switched to as-needed the next. Turning it on only as needed saved almost half the cost of my gas bill (¥4000 v. ¥2500).

Bottom line, if you're in the market for a new water heater, I would definitely recommend an on-demand system. There are certainly other also-good systems, so shop around, but I'd check it out.

[minnie1928]

I got a quote earlier this year and I think it was for about 4000-4500. I also needed additional work done to run a vent from the unit to the outside. We ended up going with the highest efficiency tanked water heater that we could find. Tank + install was about $1500 and I received a rebate from nj for some small amount.

[irmanator]

I have one and there are 3 teenagers 2 adults, it is great for us. We used to have strictly scheduled shower times and if you missed your time you were out of luck. Not good when teens have weird schedules due to jobs and sports.

However when move down south after the kids move out and it is just hubby and i I think we will be fine with the insulation and timer on a tank heater. For us it was more about the availability of the hot water, the efficiency is nice to but not sure it is worth the upfront. We were not able to get anything bigger than a 40 gal due to codes and the tankless solved us not having enough.

[PMMM]

Here is some information I came across on this type of water heating system. It may help.

A tankless water heater saves energy because it only heats water when you need it – but saving energy is only part of the cost and savings to be considered when you are deciding on a water heating system. How much does a tankless water heating system cost? That depends on the size of the heater, the ease of installation, the fuel it runs on, its Energy Factor, and how much water you use. Tankless heaters usually cost more to purchase than storage heaters, but less to run.

Most gas-fired tankless water heater installations cost $2500 - $4200 including parts and labor. When considering the cost of a tankless system, it is important to understand that a tankless heater will typically last 20+ years before requiring any major service. In 20 years, an average home will have 3 tank style heaters installed. Although costing more initially than one storage type heater installation, the long life and energy savings make the tankless system a much better value in the long run. Washington Water Heaters can help you determine the best fit for your needs.

Your savings in operating costs with a tankless heater depend also on the heating system you are converting from or comparing to. A tankless water heater will save you about 30-40% when compared to natural gas storage models, and 50-60% compared to electric and propane models.

Why do tankless water heaters cost less to run? A tankless heater has a much more efficient burner, and since it is only heating water when you need hot water, stand-by loss is altogether eliminated. A tank heater has to cycle on several times a day to keep the contents at the desired temperature. It does this when you are sleeping, when you are at work, when you are on vacation. It’s like keeping a teakettle heating on the stove 24/7 for the 2 or 3 times a day you want tea. Tankless heaters store no water, so there is nothing to keep warm. Plus, tankless heaters heat water only to the temperature at which it is used, while storage heaters maintain a supply of very hot water which is then mixed with cold water to the temperature of use.

[disneysteve]

When considering the cost of a tankless system, it is important to understand that a tankless heater will typically last 20+ years before requiring any major service. In 20 years, an average home will have 3 tank style heaters installed. Although costing more initially than one storage type heater installation, the long life and energy savings make the tankless system a much better value in the long run.

Realizing that this quote came from someone selling the product, it is a good point. I'm not sure I'd agree that the average home will have 3 tank heaters in 20 years - 2 maybe but 3 is pushing it. If you intend to stay in your home long term, which we do, that does make the higher upfront cost a better value. $4,000 for a 20-year system that costs less to operate vs. $1,500 twice for 10-year systems that cost more to operate is a different equation than just comparing $4,000 to $1,500.

Again, I have to do some research on actual costs in my area to see the real price differential.