Entitlement programs

[happygirl]

I know there's been a good deal of discussion recently about food stamps. This morning I saw an article on AOL that said that 1 in 7 people utilize food stamps. I'm wondering if there is really anything that can be done at this point to change the attitude of entitlement in our country in general. I think simply complaining that "they should only get beans and rice for sustenance", won't change anything, but there probably aren't enough voters who would support cutting benefits since so many are taking advantage of them. Why would so many bite the hand that's feeding them?

[disneysteve]

there probably aren't enough voters who would support cutting benefits

Benefits aren't voted on by the people (at least not directly). If they were, I think you'd see a lot of changes. Congress does these things on their own so it is up to us to elect representatives who share our views, not that that always works out so well once they get in office but it is the best we can do.

[happygirl]

DS, that's the point I was trying to make. You just did a much better job of it! Thanks

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

If it is foodstamps specifically that you want to change, you will need to get the support of business---agriculture, food processing/manufacturing, dairy, ranchers, meat packers, grocery stores (national chains, regional chains, tiny 500 square foot food shops), drugstores with food sections, Walmart, KMart, Target, farmers' markets, the UPC coding companies, agricultural chemical manufacturers, etc. All these businesses have a stake in USAmericans having a wide variety of choice in what they purchase with foodstamps, and that they remain "well-fed."

When you change which food and the way food is distributed in an economy, you are going right to the roots (I'll take credit for any pun you read in that ) of that economy. The larger the change, the more pervasive the effects would be. We should only make deep changes with our eyes wide open for the consequences. Even if every foodstamp recipient started today to voluntarily eat in the way that the more drastic here would ask of them, I think the economic consequences would be huge.

By the way, was that 1/7 figure saying that 1 in 7 currently use foodstamps, or is it 1 in 7 have used foodstamps at some point, or that 1 in 7 are projected to need foodstamps at some point in their life? Perhaps it was even that 1 in 7 qualify. As I pointed out on another recent thread, not everyone who qualifies is interested in applying for the help.

Is there anyone here who does not know anyone who uses foodstamps? This should be a program familiar to all if it is so very common.

[happygirl]

Joan, the article said 1 in 7 currently use food stamps (about 43 million). If I wasn't so technologically challenged I would link the article. It also said 21.5% of people living in the DC area are currently on food stamps. I worry that as a nation we'll continue to become more and more reliant on entitlement programs and less and less motivated to be self sufficient.

I volunteer with agencies who work with lower income youth so I know of many people who benefit from govt assistance, but to my knowledge I don't know anyone on a personal level who utilizes theses benefits. For that matter, I can't think of anyone I know personally who is on unemployment either.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Come to think of it, the count of people using food stamps should not be thought of the number of adults using food stamps. If a single parent gets food stamps for his/herself and two kids, that means three people are on foodstamps. So, maybe the number of foodstamp households is more like a third of the rate of 1 in 7, so perhaps 1 in 21.

[disneysteve]

Is there anyone here who does not know anyone who uses foodstamps? This should be a program familiar to all if it is so very common.

I know hundreds of people on foodstamps but I work in the poorest city in America so a high percentage of my patients are on public assistance. Chances are everyone knows someone on foodstamps whether they are aware of it or not.

[asmom]

I think it's interesting that your concern is not that there are 43 million people in this country who NEED food stamps but that there are 43 million people who USE food stamps. We really don't care that there are 43 million people out there who have trouble feeding themselves and their families, just that they are doing it with government help. That speaks volumes.

Do you honestly believe that so many folks use them because they feel entitled? I don't think you will ever find any person in this country who doesn't feel a need to eat. That's a fact. If that makes us entitled as a country......*shrug*'


The increase in the numbers of folks getting food stamps is directly tied to the rise in unemployment so that should tell you that most people are using them because they probably have no choice.

The average recipient receives $133/month...that doesn't buy a whole lot of filet mignon so why the angst?

[happygirl]

I think it's interesting that your concern is not that there are 43 million people in this country who NEED food stamps but that there are 43 million people who USE food stamps. We really don't care that there are 43 million people out there who have trouble feeding themselves and their families, just that they are doing it with government help. That speaks volumes.

Do you honestly believe that so many folks use them because they feel entitled? I don't think you will ever find any person in this country who doesn't feel a need to eat. That's a fact. If that makes us entitled as a country......*shrug*'


The increase in the numbers of folks getting food stamps is directly tied to the rise in unemployment so that should tell you that most people are using them because they probably have no choice.

The average recipient receives $133/month...that doesn't buy a whole lot of filet mignon so why the angst?

I've apparently upset you and I'm sorry for that. It was not my intention. I don't think I intimated that I believe people are buying filet mignon and I don't feel angst over this matter. If anything, it reminds me how truly blessed I am not to be in such a position.

I have to be honest though, I do have doubts that all 43 million of those people truly NEED food stamps. But then I've also seen people who purposely turn down work because their benefits (usually medical assistance and child care vouchers to my knowledge) will be cut if their income goes over a certain level and it's not cost efficient to give up those benefits.

My concern (and you certainly don't have to agree with me) is that, like the expression goes, rather than "teaching a man to fish" we are "giving a man a fish", thus in some situations not giving people encouragement to be self sufficient.

Again, I truly didn't mean to offend anyone.

[maat55]

It is not a federal(Constitutionally) duty to feed, house, educate, provide healthcare or retiremnt for anyone.

If I were truly in need of food I would be very greatful to just get beans and rice. There is no doubt in my mind that many on food stamps use it to subsidize a luxury. I have never heard of anyone in this country dying of starvation(other than self-imposed anorexia).

This world managed to populate from two people to 6 billion without cell phones, pampers and food stamps.

[disneysteve]

The increase in the numbers of folks getting food stamps is directly tied to the rise in unemployment so that should tell you that most people are using them because they probably have no choice.

I guess the issue is whether or not you believe that this statement is true. Many do not. I think what spurs these conversations is concern over abuse of the system. Many people are okay with their being a system to help those who are truly in need (although others do not believe such a system should exist). The problems arise when aid is going to those who aren't truly in need or at least they are getting aid that exceeds their actual need.

The average recipient receives $133/month...that doesn't buy a whole lot of filet mignon so why the angst?

Does that mean that the average family of four receives $532 or is the amount different for adults and kids? Even if it is $400, that is more than many people on this site spend to feed their families.

I posted photos the other day from a local store showing ads advertising that the store accepts food stamps. The ads were on the rack of Doritos and on the refrigerator case of Red Bull among other places. Is there really any justifiable reason why folks should be permitted to spend taxpayers' money on such items? They are not necessities by any stretch of the imagination.

As happygirl, there are also people (I personally know many) who turn down work to keep their public assistance. I also know many people who work under the table, getting unreported income, so that they not only get their public assistance benefits, including food stamps, but they also have a cash income. Those are the kinds of things that get people upset with the system as it currently exists.

[asmom]

I've apparently upset you and I'm sorry for that. It was not my intention. I don't think I intimated that I believe people are buying filet mignon and I don't feel angst over this matter. If anything, it reminds me how truly blessed I am not to be in such a position.

I have to be honest though, I do have doubts that all 43 million of those people truly NEED food stamps. But then I've also seen people who purposely turn down work because their benefits (usually medical assistance and child care vouchers to my knowledge) will be cut if their income goes over a certain level and it's not cost efficient to give up those benefits.

My concern (and you certainly don't have to agree with me) is that, like the expression goes, rather than "teaching a man to fish" we are "giving a man a fish", thus in some situations not giving people encouragement to be self sufficient.

Again, I truly didn't mean to offend anyone.

I'm not upset at YOU however I am annoyed as there is starting to be a recurring theme on this board and obsession with food stamp usage is leading the way. And as I've said, no one has really expressed concern at the large number of people(the majority of whom are children/elderly/disabled) who find themselves in dire straits just that they are receiving assistance. It's puzzling.

There is no question that not all of the 43 million people who receive food stamps need food stamps. No question. However, the rise in the use of food stamps is correlated with rising unemployment which suggests to me that the concern about teaching a man to fish is unwarranted rather in better economic times people will find work to which they can apply their skills/education.

[asmom]

I guess the issue is whether or not you believe that this statement is true. Many do not. I think what spurs these conversations is concern over abuse of the system. Many people are okay with their being a system to help those who are truly in need (although others do not believe such a system should exist). The problems arise when aid is going to those who aren't truly in need or at least they are getting aid that exceeds their actual need.


Does that mean that the average family of four receives $532 or is the amount different for adults and kids? Even if it is $400, that is more than many people on this site spend to feed their families.

I posted photos the other day from a local store showing ads advertising that the store accepts food stamps. The ads were on the rack of Doritos and on the refrigerator case of Red Bull among other places. Is there really any justifiable reason why folks should be permitted to spend taxpayers' money on such items? They are not necessities by any stretch of the imagination.

As happygirl, there are also people (I personally know many) who turn down work to keep their public assistance. I also know many people who work under the table, getting unreported income, so that they not only get their public assistance benefits, including food stamps, but they also have a cash income. Those are the kinds of things that get people upset with the system as it currently exists.

I believe that statement to be true. Many are using food stamps because they have no choice. Do you really think the majority of them are not? There is no question there is abuse by a small minority. There always be. But where is the evidence to suggest that large numbers of people are simply goldbricks out for a free ride? There certainly is not enough to justify me looking over folks' shoulders checking out their shopping carts and foodstuffs.


You know people who work under the table and receive a cash income, etc. I bet for every person you know like that, you know many who are barely surviving. I certainly do. I work with the poor also. Some of their stories break my heart. I've met a few gaming the system too. I can spot a freeloader as well as the next person. But the truly needy outweight the cheats, no doubt.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Steve, here is a link to some numbers for your own state, though others can use the drop down menu for info on their own state.

NCCP | New Jersey: Food Stamps (The link appears to be at Columbia University, though it is not a .edu address.)

The data is 3-4 years old, and unfortunately, some of the footnoted links have expired, so I could not verify exactly what was meant where I had questions about definitions. There seemed to be two different uses of the word recipient; first as households and second as individuals.

However I am thinking from the info there, in your state, the average per person foodstamp allotment was only about $68 ($203 for 3 individuals in the average recipient household). Sure do need the disappeared footnotes to know how they are using the word "recipient" in each case.

[Scanner]

I think we as a country need to rethink about how we deliver entitlements.

Look at NJ. . .we have a Tunnel To Nowhere right now becuase (and I believe him) Governor Christie says we don't have the money to do it.

All entitlements should be done in exchange for some form of infrastructure development IMHO, since we can't afford to pay union contractors to do it as this time. I don't doubt a tunnel from NJ to NY is a good idea for infrastructure development.

Now, how we contribute to infrastructure development in this country, (the poor that is, when I say "we" - I am not poor), I don't really care. Pick up a pick and shovel, answer a phone, make ham sandwiches for the laborers and deliver it with water out onto the field. . .but somebody on Food Stamps, someone getting Financial Aid for school, someone getting Mediciad should be able to do something in exchange for society providing it.

We have a current system where you get something for nothing.

I mean, how horrible and I don't care if you are a liberal, conservative or moderate.

Not only is that Unjust, Inequitable and mostly, Unsustainable. . .it actually robs the person of something we should be giving him or her - dignity.

Who knows. . .I may need the safety net. . .but I wouldn't mind working/contributing in some way in exchange for what I get.

The problem with Obama, to me, is that he didn't follow FDR enough vs. following him too much. We need conservation projects, utility/energy development and we have all this human capital sitting idle.