Food Stamps

[rob62521]

A few years ago my mom had to apply for food stamps. It was a necessity since her social security was $250 a month. She was given $30 in food stamps a month. She didn't go out and buy fancy things...just basics. It irked her when she would get in line with someone who had all the convenience and snack foods and none of the basics. Yes, there are people out there who abuse the system. I do think food stamps should be like WIC and like some other folks previously posted, there should be an incentive and motivation to get off of it, if possible. I do not want to see anyone go hungry or starve, but I don't feel junk food is necessary either.

[asmom]

My concern is the disconnect that occurs when people take public assistance. IMO, it is easier for the average person to relax on government assistance. I'm also a firm believer that very, very few people with, no available government option, will always find self help.

Maat, I asked you this before but I am asking again: what proof do you have that merely receiving public assistance kills a person's will and motivation to provide for themselves? There is no real evidence to support your viewpoint.

I was reading a book a few days ago about the Dust Bowl of the 1930s, The Worst Hard Time. It was not pretty. It inspired me to read a bit more about what actually happened during that time. Here is some info:

Digital History

In the Pennsylvania coal fields, three or four families crowded together in one-room shacks and lived on wild weeds. In Arkansas, families were found inhabiting caves. In Oakland, California, whole families lived in sewer pipes.

To save money, families neglected medical and dental care. Many families sought to cope by planting gardens, canning food, buying used bread, and using cardboard and cotton for shoe soles. Despite a steep decline in food prices, many families did without milk or meat. In New York City, milk consumption declined a million gallons a day.

President Herbert Hoover declared, "Nobody is actually starving. The hoboes are better fed than they have ever been." But in New York City in 1931, there were 20 known cases of starvation; in 1934, there were 110 deaths caused by hunger. There were so many accounts of people starving in New York that the West African nation of Cameroon sent $3.77 in relief.

The Depression had a powerful impact on family life..... The divorce rate fell, for the simple reason that many couples could not afford to maintain separate households or pay legal fees. But rates of desertion soared...... More than 200,000 vagrant children wandered the country as a result of the breakup of their families.

People love to romanticize the Great Depression by focusing on the frugality it inspired in its survivors but the reality was not pretty at all. It looks like the charities that you have advocated did not step up to the plate. Neither did friends and families, probably because they were in the same boat. The poor in this country are not in the same shape today probably because of the social programs enacted by FDR as a result of the Depression. However, in contrast to the stories of abuse and laziness that people love to share on this forum we already have the rise of homeless camps and tent cities around the country of formerly employed and job seekers. Is this something we really want to return to just so you can get a couple more of your tax dollars returned to your check?

[maat55]

[QUOTE]

Maat, I asked you this before but I am asking again: what proof do you have that merely receiving public assistance kills a person's will and motivation to provide for themselves? There is no real evidence to support your viewpoint.

YouTube - ABC 20/20 Freeloaders - Creating Dependency Segment

How you help people is important. The federal government is not capable of doing it properly.

Reforming Food Stamps to Promote Work and Reduce Poverty and Dependence | The Heritage Foundation

It is sad(IMO) that you feel federal government programs are the only solution to self-preservation. When someone on food stamps feels free to buy luxuries I would not, the program is way to open for abuse.

[cptacek]

[QUOTE=maat55;264002]

YouTube - ABC 20/20 Freeloaders - Creating Dependency Segment

How you help people is important. The federal government is not capable of doing it properly.

Reforming Food Stamps to Promote Work and Reduce Poverty and Dependence | The Heritage Foundation

It is sad(IMO) that you feel federal government programs are the only solution to self-preservation. When someone on food stamps feels free to buy luxuries I would not, the program is way to open for abuse.

she won't accept anything from the Heritage Foundation as proof.

[dczech09]

I have relatives who have (or still do) work for Walmart. I have heard stories of people who go to Walmart to buy foods and they end up purchasing a bunch of food on food stamps and EBT cards. Now we're not talking about necessities, we're talking about cases upon cases of pop, chips, cookies, ice cream, etc. Basically everything except the essentials like bread, eggs, milk, meat, and produce. These people then go to check out and act as if they are some important person because they have the government buying there stuff. They even have the audacity to complain if a box of Trix is in the bag upside down. I find this amusing when it is the Walmart clerk that is helping finance this diet and behavior.

Ultimately, I am not against helping people when they are down; I believe that we as people have a moral obligation to help those in need. But the issue comes in where a "want" for free money has been confused with a "need" for economic support. Its no secret that these entitlement programs are being abused, and the sad thing is that it is having a negative impact on our economy.

I do not blame the government for wanting to help people; I feel for them. However, I know that right now my job is to support myself first and then worry about helping others, and the government needs to take the same approach. The bottom line is that the government does not have the resources to do this hyperextension of entitlements and hand outs. They also do not have the ability or know-how to eliminate or even mitigate waste or welfare fraud. If the government were to stop, there would be people pointing the finger at them. If the government does not increase the giving when economic times in general are tough, they again get blamed.

The fact of the matter is that the government is stuck in limbo on this issue and while one side of aisle understands the long-term implications, the other side argues feeling and emotion. I do not think the government can handle this much longer. We as the people need to not look to government for solutions to these issues, but rather look to ourselves. Welfare can and should be privatized and the charitible organizations should be allowed to "underwrite" the support.

As for those who argue that we cannot prove that these handouts reduce motivation for people to become self-relient: I say that it is human nature. If we are given something for nothing, we are psychologically being conditioned to believe that the behavior of doing nothing will result in gain. In such cases we continue to exhibit the same kind of behavior. This over time becomes similar to insanity; which ironically is what is going on right now with this whole issue. It is insanity.

[maat55]

As for those who argue that we cannot prove that these handouts reduce motivation for people to become self-relient: I say that it is human nature. If we are given something for nothing, we are psychologically being conditioned to believe that the behavior of doing nothing will result in gain. In such cases we continue to exhibit the same kind of behavior. This over time becomes similar to insanity; which ironically is what is going on right now with this whole issue. It is insanity.

It is no coincidence that large numbers of people live paycheck to paycheck. And, many people who have resources will still use government programs when they qualify by government standards.

All you have to do is not have a job, and you become a recipient of many programs.

[maat55]

yeah. the lady is really bother

My focus is not much on the lady as much as the system that allows the abuse. The lady is just taking advantage of an poor concieved and managed program.

[ea1776]

Very true, especially since many charities operate on an honor system. I've read that the soup kitchens in Atlantic City have trouble because people walk over from the casinos to get a free lunch and then go right back to gambling.

[asmom]

[QUOTE=maat55;264002]

YouTube - ABC 20/20 Freeloaders - Creating Dependency Segment

How you help people is important. The federal government is not capable of doing it properly.

Reforming Food Stamps to Promote Work and Reduce Poverty and Dependence | The Heritage Foundation

It is sad(IMO) that you feel federal government programs are the only solution to self-preservation. When someone on food stamps feels free to buy luxuries I would not, the program is way to open for abuse.

Maat, these discussions are a lot more productive if you respond to something I actually wrote. At no time, did I write or suggest that "federal government programs are the only solution to self-preservation." I merely questioned your claims that without a safety net, people will always find self help and that government assistance kills the will to be self-reliant. You provided a link about cheats(which is a different discussion) and a questionable report from the Heritage foundation which mixes statistics and draws some very shaky conclusions to support your POV. For example:

Very long term dependents, who received aid for 10 years or more, comprised only 2.5 percent of the whole NLSY sample but they received over 40 percent of all Food Stamp benefits.

Conveniently there is no profile of these long term dependents. Are they disabled? Elderly? Both? Neither. No way of knowing because the report makes no distinction leaving you to draw your own conclusions. The assumption is they are welfare mothers because at the beginning of the "report", he claims that the majority are single parent households with children. This is deliberate and you fell for this deception.

Thanks for trying anyway.

[maat55]

Maat, these discussions are a lot more productive if you respond to something I actually wrote. At no time, did I write or suggest that "federal government programs are the only solution to self-preservation." I merely questioned your claims that without a safety net, people will always find self help and that government assistance kills the will to be self-reliant. You provided a link about cheats(which is a different discussion) and a questionable report from the Heritage foundation which mixes statistics and draws some very shaky conclusions to support your POV. For example:



Conveniently there is no profile of these long term dependents. Are they disabled? Elderly? Both? Neither. No way of knowing because the report makes no distinction leaving you to draw your own conclusions. The assumption is they are welfare mothers because at the beginning of the "report", he claims that the majority are single parent households with children. This is deliberate and you fell for this deception.

Thanks for trying anyway.

asmom, I accept human nature as it is. Why do you think that game rangers demand people not feed the animals?

You would like to think that government assistance is not harmful, but it is. If it were extremely limited, it might help some, but it is not.

The videos go into depth about general welfare, not just that of single mothers. I assure you, if government assistance were ended, people would not starve or be without necessities.

[expo09]

All government benefit programs need to be only for essentials and people who really need them. They are designed to help people who need the help (and I don't have a problem with this) and not people who can just take advantage of us - because after all it is all our taxes which pays for them.

[maat55]

All government benefit programs need to be only for essentials and people who really need them. They are designed to help people who need the help (and I don't have a problem with this) and not people who can just take advantage of us - because after all it is all our taxes which pays for them.

It is questionable as to whether they are designed to help people or buy votes.

[YISave]

That is why another tax system would take care of this problem like the FAIR TAX system or the consumption tax system. You can get the tax money out of those who earn it illegally as well.

[YISave]

When I was a little girl, the salvation army was an area where the government gave out food once a month. I remember people feeling too proud to accept it because it was comsidered welfare in those days and people had more pride in themselves then. My grandmother received this a couple of times because they had a flood in the area and many didn't have resoursces. I can remember they gave her a chunk of cheese, a large jar of peanut butter, flour, bags of beans, spam I think, shortening, etc. Those were the necessities for one to cook with and also she was given powder milk to mix up and I think evaporated milk, It seems to me that the products that were given was basic and the women had to cook. There were no chips. I know a man that for a year, with no wife and 3 kids that got $668. a month in food stamps. He had so many that he never used them in the month and was afraid to use them because he was afraid that they would lower them. You're right. He was able to buy subs from the supermarket although he couldn't buy a rotiserrie chicken or prepared hot foods. The kids had chips and junk galore. He made fun of me using coupons as a worthless act and that he didn't need them anyway. I kept thinking, - yea, and my husband has to work 60-70 hours a week to support a lazy person as yourself. They won't work because they lose their benefits. He has it all, medicaid, vision, dental. This whole system is a mess.

[maat55]

This whole system is a mess.

This is why I advocate against federal programs. Food, clothing, shelter, healthcare, retirement and education are individual and local issues, not the business of the federal government.

Even private charities have to be careful how they provide help. Too many times, resources are squandered in how they are redistributed. It is no coincidence that we sit here today, 13 trillion in debt and in an economic crisis.