Online poker

[elessar78]

So I was reading an old issue (June 2009) of the NY Times weekend magazine and there was an article about how a mom (the author) found out her kid was really into online poker. She did a little snooping and found out that her son had a secret bank account which contained $12,000 in poker winnings.

The son was a college student at the time and needless to say, he wasn't doing too well in school. The poker was just consuming him.

Anyway, to my "question", say you found yourself in this situation and couldn't dissuade your adult child from pursuing poker as a "career." Is there a way you would try to teach him/her personal finance?

Personally I wouldn't support the decision financially (of course). But as I was reading this article, I just thought to myself that if this kid is actually THAT good maybe he could use some education on how to manage his cash flow. In theory, it's no different than someone who works on commission and is subject to irregular cash flow. There's a very small percentage of people who make their living as professional poker players, and I'd bet (pun intended) that the success rate is comparable to those that try to make a living as an actor or professional musician or athlete.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

By college, a kid of mine would already know something about handling money, so I would not expect to do much (anything?) to educate her about handling hers now. However, if poker seemed to be interfering with a healthy life, I'd have to express my concerns about that.

[Snodog]

I wouldn't assume just because the son played poker that he was bad with his finances. I used to play poker (with some success) and am very good with finances.

There is a way to play responsibly. If you are a good player and don't risk too much in any 1 game/tournamnet you greatly decrease your risk.

That being said I would not recommend that anyone start playing. To some people it can be addicting. That could be a "good" thing if you are talented but most are not.

[disneysteve]

Anyway, to my "question", say you found yourself in this situation and couldn't dissuade your adult child from pursuing poker as a "career." Is there a way you would try to teach him/her personal finance?

If I found out my kid was winning thousands playing poker, I'd bankroll her to play more.

Otherwise, I agree with Joan that by that age (by her current age, in fact) my daughter will know plenty about personal finance and money management. I'd be more upset if she won the money and blew it than I would be about her secret poker account.

I would certainly try to get her to realize that poker need not be her full-time career as it is something that can easily be done along with a "normal" job. In fact, if you are good at it, it is a perfectly good second career.

[jIM_Ohio]

I have friends in HS which tried making poker their occupation.

The comments from them were "it much tougher when you cannot see the other person's cards on TV".

Best if the college kid falls flat on his face, that is part of growing up.

[EEinNJ]

I have a friend (who will soon be able to collect Soc Sec) who is an experienced gambler and has won a lot on-line. As he explained it to me, the problem is you don't know who you're playing, and there's a "greater-fool" factor in being successful. That is, you can do well while you're playing relative beginners, but eventually you'll be the one who's losing.

[cyclone1]

I have a friend who is trying to play poker for a living online. Needless to say he isn't doing very well. Explain to him that its gambling and your winning streak can't go on forever.

[cyclone1]

Or maybe it can, but that is in the rarest of cases!

[disneysteve]

I think one problem with playing poker for fun vs. playing it for a living is that once you make yourself dependent on the income, it changes everything. You may alter your play, be more aggressive, take added risks - because you need the money. When you are just doing it for fun, if you lose a hand, it isn't a big deal. When you are dependent on the money, losing a hand might mean not having rent money. Big difference.

[jpg7n16]

Take if from someone who used to play poker for a living...

Poker makes a very good second job.

At least have the guy do a trial run. Take a week off and play full time. Literally play 40 hours and clock your time. See how he likes it. Bankroll management will be key, and he should probably double his initial bankroll requirements (40 or 50 buyins would be decent minimums when it's your livelyhood). But if he's playing 10/20NL or higher and winning, it will be really hard to convince him otherwise.

I built up to playing 3/6NL and some 5/10NL - playing 15-20 hours a week on top of my job. Made like $35k - then had 1 horrible day (lost 8k), and haven't really wanted to play since. Good thing I had a legit job to go to and no gaps in my resume.

Oh and I have a degree in finance and sat for the CFP exam in March. Both of which were financed by my poker endeavors. (Paid for 4 semesters of school and all my books, and all the CFP course fees, books, and exam fees)

Trust me, he's probably playing 2/4NL+ making $40+/hr and doesn't see the need for a real job. (I averaged around $75/hr when playing all the time) But there's more to consider than just the money. Cause what do you do when you wake up and just don't want to play anymore?

Or you're on tilt, but know you need to play to eat? The psychological boost from having a "real" job makes running bad more manageable.

[PrincessPerky]

While I don't recommend poker as a living, it is actually a game of skill. The trouble lies in as some above said, when you rely on it, you play differently. (which isn't the games fault)

As to the college kid, seems he is doing fine with his money, though if it is consuming his life (not just his studies) he needs help. If he is just wasting his college time, he needs a quick lesson in what is important, drop out for a time (and hope that poker pays the bills I guess) or study more play less.

Seems like a good time to learn really, young enough to go back to college if he finds poker isn't all it is cracked up to be.

[JBinKC]

While I don't condone the son putting more effort in poker while his real priority set before him is his education, I don't think there isn't any negative correlation to personal finance. In fact to make money in poker takes financial discipline.

Pimco's Bill Gross was a professional gambler before his successful career in Wall Street. Likely the kid would do well in a trading environment for a career.

[b4freedom]

I would suggest the parents pull him out of the college he is in and push him into become a stock broker.

[kenyant]

12k means that he can pay for his own tuition. He is old enough to decide how to make and spend his money. The parents should stop paying for his upkeep

[elessar78]

To come full circle, the article went onto say that the mom went into research mode into the causes and cure for gambling addiction. She was convinced that he was addicted, but ultimately came to accept that it probably was not an addiction. She didn't end up bank rolling anything or condoning it, her and the son just didn't talk about it.

As far as the extent of the story, the son seemed to be doing well in his poker career. He was entering tournaments and winning enough that "sponsors" started footing his entry fee in exchange for a percentage of winnings.