i don't get so many people

[cptacek]

What is so crooked about entitlements is how spoiled and wasteful the alot of the people who receive them are. How they breed an entire subculture totally reliant on them, passed on generation to generation. Most of all how they take money from me to help people who will not get up and help themselves.

This is a feature, not a bug. If you get people to depend on the government, the people in government amass more power over those dependent on it.

[Goldy1]

I am one of the people who are naturally thin. I had a child and people couldn't beleive I looked the same 2 days later as before pregnancy. I ate not a ton but not at all light or watching it too much. It is GENES. I also don't eat a lot of junk but I don't forbid goodies so I am not inclined to "binge"

From my reading, portion size is key. Countries like ITaly that eat fatty foods and have people not fat is because they don't have large portions of pasta or desert.

I agree on the excercise thing. I get ALL my excercise from my daily activiites like cleaning with exceptions of walks. Working out makes me what to eat twice as much afterward and my stomach might still feel hollow.

I am not saying do't be active but it does not have to be a gym.
My dh lost 20 pounds from losing a job he sat at the computer on all day and never went to a gyom or "worked out" but just got moving around the house etc. That weight was never going anywhere til now. (He is a normal weight now)

[cptacek]

Perhaps the father's situation isn't any better. I saw someone recently who is stuck in that trap. He is separated from his wife. The wife got a restraining order against him claiming abuse (I don't know if it is true or not). So he can't live in their home. He has poor credit due to an prior divorce and bankruptcy so he can't rent an apartment (even if he could afford to). He is court-ordered to pay child support in an amount that was determined based on his income at the time but his job has since cut his hours and, thus, his income. Doesn't matter. He is still expected to pay his full child support. In the meantime, he is homeless, bouncing from one friend's sofa to another and sometimes literally sleeping on the street. And he also has custody of his son from his first marriage.

What exactly is he supposed to do?

It is easy to say the father should pay child support but you need to know the whole story. If the father is unemployed or otherwise unable to pay, there isn't much he can magically do to come up with that money, especially in an area of high unemployment.

We can make no assumption about the father in this case (the article). It could be that he has moved on to another family and simply erased all ties to his previous one, or he could be destitute. However, this article makes no mention of the father at all, and that just stinks to me. There should at least be tacit agreement that the man has some responsiblity to his family, even if he is shirking it, even if he doesn't want to shirk it and is due to circumstances beyond his control.

As for what the gentleman you were talking about should do, I don't have any easy answers. First thing that popped into my head was "join the military". (That is not a flippant answer, by the way. It could be a valid option.)

Finally, I think you kind of proved my point. The guy you were talking about is divorced once, separated once, and is now destitute. His children by both marriages are suffering and the breakdown of this family has caused it. I am not saying the breakdown of the marriages was his fault or her (or the other her) fault, but regardless of fault, it has a detrimental effect on the children.

[disneysteve]

As for what the gentleman you were talking about should do, I don't have any easy answers. First thing that popped into my head was "join the military". (That is not a flippant answer, by the way. It could be a valid option.

Not an unreasonable option for some. This particular guy happens to have custody of his son from his first marriage, so being a single parent, the military would be out unless he could find someone to raise his son. Personally, I don't think anyone should have to do that.

[GrimJack]

One "dirty little secret" about stores in poor neighborhoods charging more is that they do this to recover loses from shoplifting. It's a fact and it happens far more in poor areas.

Do you see the cycle forming here - the store overcharges to cover the costs of the stuff stolen by the people who can't afford to pay the high prices? Generally, there is little to no fresh produce with most of the items for sale in single use quantities. Think about the store where you shop for food - now subtract the outer ring, leaving only the boxed/frozen items. Where I live, I have 3 supermarkets withing walking distance (Safeway, HT market, and Greenwood Market) so I can chose where to buy the things I need. I am willing to bet that there if there is a super market in her neighborhood, it attached to a gas station.

The idea of her leaving - where would she go? Sometimes, living deep in a neighborhood, it is hard to imagine that moving would change her situation. How do you uproot 3 children with no destination? What is the minimum cost to move? Does she have a car? In this economy, is there a better place to be?

[cptacek]

There is a difference between choosing to stay and forgetting to leave.

It may take radical sacrifices and a dramatic change of thinking, and this article doesn't indicate that the first person shown in the article is willing to do either.

[cschin4]

The idea of her leaving - where would she go? Sometimes, living deep in a neighborhood, it is hard to imagine that moving would change her situation. How do you uproot 3 children with no destination? What is the minimum cost to move? Does she have a car? In this economy, is there a better place to be?

That is a good question. I don't know where one would go. And, sometimes you just have to make the best of whatever situation you are in where you are. However, one could move within the same town or find jobs in one's town.

On the other hand, the founding fathers or pioneers of America could have said the same thing to themselves. Where is it better, how could they survive? But again, they forged ahead.

[disneysteve]

The idea of her leaving - where would she go? Sometimes, living deep in a neighborhood, it is hard to imagine that moving would change her situation. How do you uproot 3 children with no destination? What is the minimum cost to move? Does she have a car? In this economy, is there a better place to be?

That is a good question. I don't know where one would go. And, sometimes you just have to make the best of whatever situation you are in where you are. However, one could move within the same town or find jobs in one's town.

On the other hand, the founding fathers or pioneers of America could have said the same thing to themselves. Where is it better, how could they survive? But again, they forged ahead.

I think comparing an unemployed city dweller to an American pioneer is a bit extreme. That pioneer could fit everything he owned in a trunk or two and wherever he ended up, he was living off the land - hunting for food, building his own shelter, etc.

That city dweller needs money and a fairly large amount of it in order to move to a new town. If she has good credit, which will be necessary in order to rent an apartment, she then needs first and last month's rent and a security deposit all up front. She needs money to pay movers or at least rent a truck and get friends to load it up (except then who would unload it at the other end). And she needs to have enough in savings after all of that to sustain herself and her family until she finds work in the new town.

Not so simple to just say she should move to where the jobs are.

[cschin4]

I think comparing an unemployed city dweller to an American pioneer is a bit extreme.

No, the point is one's spirit. Pioneers rose above their circumstances. If you are living in poverty, then you can start over by packing up the kids and taking a few things and leaving the stuff behind because it isn't worth anything anyway.
I am not saying she can or should do that. And, I stated before that sometimes one just have to make the best of the circumstances they are in and that may be the case. Moving isn't going to necessarily change anything. However, if I lived in Detroit with 30% unemployment, I would get out of there even if it meant abandoning my house.

[disneysteve]

Moving isn't going to necessarily change anything. However, if I lived in Detroit with 30% unemployment, I would get out of there even if it meant abandoning my house.

I agree. If I were in that situation, I'd be tracking down family members or friends in other places to see who would let me crash in their basement for a while until I found a job and saved up enough to get my own place. Or I'd be looking into the cheapest possible accommodations I could find like a hostel or boarding house of some sort until I could get on my feet. Of course, that is a lot more difficult with a kid or 2 or 3.

[seaar2000]

I live in MI and yes the economy sucks here but where she lives she does not live far at all from many different grocery stores that compete with one another with food prices. She could use coupons, loss leader meats, aldi's, sav a lot, etc. What kind of pisses me off, excuse me for my french, but people like her burn me up. What the world? $450 for food a month! I might spend 1/2 of that a month for food. I have to get up to go to work in order for me to put food on my table, to have insurance, to pay my mortgage and other NECESSARY BILLS! Before anybody thinks I make alot of money I only make $24,000 a year. If I can do it others can. I am so sick of bleeding hearts. Four kids by four different fathers! She can party and drink? Oh gee, who is taking care of her children while she is out partying. Oh, yes, when she gets her tax refund she is going to get her kids anything they want. For god sakes pay your bills! Oh, yes ADC will take care of that. Why should she work any more than she has to when WE are paying her way in life. Why get off your duff when it is handed to you. The ones I feel sorry for are the ones that are losing there jobs left and right after working for a company for many years and through no fault of their own and have a heck of a time getting any type of help. Than the freepress expects me to feel sorry for this woman. I could probably say alot more about this blood sucker but I don't want to get jumped all over. The pity party doesn't work for me. Instead of partying why don't she spend some time with her kids. Please don't tell me that it was her upbringing sick of the sob storys.

[seaar2000]

Also, should of added I work at a hopice home and our cesnsus has been low so I have been working only three to four days a week and still making it due to not spending unless absolutely have to. Instead of taking my money and drinking and partying I put it up in my EF just in case something like this may happen. I do some housekeeping once every two weeks for my aunt. If she really wanted to she could work at a fast food place. May be only 10 to 15 hours a week but extra income. Oh yea, that might cut in her benefits. Silly me.

[Confetti]

If she really wanted to she could work at a fast food place. May be only 10 to 15 hours a week but extra income. Oh yea, that might cut in her benefits. Silly me.

You've hit on something there. I work at a restaurant/motel and we put out ads for help for housekeepers and servers, and nobody applies. Our area has one of the highest unemployment rates in our state. You mean to tell me there is no person that wants even part-time work? We can only assume they don't want to work because it will mess up their benefits.

My previous job was working with families doing home visits with preschoolers. You would not believe (or maybe you would) how seamlessly these clients could work the system. Most had a "medical" problem for which they got SSI disability. I visited with these people frequently, and believe me, their "medical" problems were not something for which you would miss work. You get cash aid, food stamps, HUD for the rent, energy assistance, WIC, free baby clothes and diapers from the nuns at the convent, free meal once a week at the Salvation Army, food bank, free preschool, angel tree for Christmas presents, free community Christmas dinner - - I could go on. At my office, we began to think that WE were the saps for going to work every day.

[disneysteve]

You've hit on something there. I work at a restaurant/motel and we put out ads for help for housekeepers and servers, and nobody applies. Our area has one of the highest unemployment rates in our state. You mean to tell me there is no person that wants even part-time work? We can only assume they don't want to work because it will mess up their benefits.

I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread. The benefits system has some serious flaws and this is one of them. If you take on work and earn over a very small amount, you may completely lose your benefits. Imagine you are a parent of a couple of kids. You get health insurance through the Medicaid system. If you go back to work, even part-time, you and your family will lose health insurance. Would you do it? You might also become ineligible for food stamps. In some cases, you could even become ineligible for the public housing in which you live. Would it be worth taking that job if you'd find yourself with nowhere to live, no assistance with groceries and no health insurance? That part-time job could end up costing you thousands of dollars in lost benefits. I'm not saying it is right to play the system that way, but I can certainly understand why some people do.

What often happens is that people do work but they do so at jobs that pay under the table so that the income isn't reported. That way they have income and they have welfare benefits.

[seaar2000]

It took me about three years to get my medical kicked in at work! What did I do? Went to the college we have who clean teeth for a very small fee, went to the health clinic where I had to pay a small fee or sometimes my doctor would let me make payments which I did do. Oh, good lord to be without benefits! Sucks, but been there and done that! You do what you have to do like normal people and I am quoting normal people who don't suck the blood out of the system. Do I sound resentful! Right I am. My insurance went up $30 more because of people like them. I have to get my butt up to go to work and make sure I have my insurance and food on my table! Maybe my mistake is I take a little bit of pride in myself and teach my daughters not to be lazy scum. I have a brother who is on the system (SSI) due to having only one leg due to an accident. His excuse is he can't work because he has only one leg!? Man he didn't work when he had two legs. Don't get me going on SSI 1/2 of those people and I said 1/2 don't belong on this system!