i don't get so many people

[disneysteve]

There's a huge drug problem here and a lot of people are on some form of gov't assistance.

True here as well. I've often noted how people tell me they can't afford their prescriptions, can't afford transportation to get to and from doctors' offices. Can't afford healthier food. But they seem to have no trouble affording cigarettes, alcohol, pot, coke and heroin. And lottery tickets, of course.

(poor people here seem to move a lot).

My front desk staff knows to verify contact information at every visit. Addresses and phone numbers change constantly. Many people have prepaid cell phones as their only phone. When they use up the minutes, they just get another phone, not more minutes. I don't know if that is cheaper or just habit so that they always have the latest phone style.

only in America can "poor" people be fat.

Exactly. Historically, obesity was a sign of wealth. Today, just the opposite is true. The poor are much more likely to be obese than the middle and upper incomes.

[disneysteve]

They shoplift because it's the culture. I grew up in this stuff. I worked as a police officer around this stuff. I know for a fact that you can steal T-bones and trade them for "crack". You can trade groceries for sex. You can steal food and sell it on the corner. Price has little to do with it. It's mainly about everyone else doing it.

This is where a lot of the food stamp money goes. People use every penny they get, keep what they need for themselves and sell or trade the rest.

[asmom]

They shoplift because it's the culture. I grew up in this stuff. I worked as a police officer around this stuff. I know for a fact that you can steal T-bones and trade them for "crack". You can trade groceries for sex. You can steal food and sell it on the corner. Price has little to do with it. It's mainly about everyone else doing it.

Whose culture is it? And everyone else is doing it? Everyone?!! I don't claim to be an expert; I'm neither a cop nor a sociologist but I feel pretty confident that not all poor people steal or trade T-bones for "crack". I hate that you're a cop also; it must be pretty hard for people you work with to get a break assuming you believe that everyone in certain neighborhoods is culturally inclined to steal.

P.S. I was being facetious with my question about shoplifting and higher prices. The reason for higher cost of goods and services in lower income neighborhoods is multifactorial.

[GREENBACK]

Whose culture is it? And everyone else is doing it? Everyone?!! I don't claim to be an expert; I'm neither a cop nor a sociologist but I feel pretty confident that not all poor people steal or trade T-bones for "crack". I hate that you're a cop also; it must be pretty hard for people you work with to get a break assuming you believe that everyone in certain neighborhoods is culturally inclined to steal.

P.S. I was being facetious with my question about shoplifting and higher prices. The reason for higher cost of goods and services in lower income neighborhoods is multifactorial.

Did not mean that to be a blanket statement or to imply that "everyone does it. I certainly do not believe that everyone is guilty. I grew up in a crime ridden area and know that there are many decent law abiding folks in these areas. At the same time, I know about the other side as well. I played with and went to school with thugs, thiefs and drug dealers. I learned the game well before I ever wore a badge. This was almost 20 yrs. ago by the way.

There most certainly is a cultural climate that fosters this behavior. I don't need a sociologist to tell me this because I lived it. Not everyone does it. I didn't. I had a father who would have ripped me a new one if I did. I'm only telling true stories of what definitely occurs on the street.

I don't prejudge any person before I know them. Not based on color, social status, financial status or where they live. My life experience has taught me to treat everyone equally.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Do we need to remember, while discussing this, that not everyone who receives public aid does so for years on end? Last time I read a figure, some 20% of the population uses food stamps (as an example) at some point in their life. For some people it is a one time use. I want to say this because having these programs does not mean that everyone who makes use of them gets trapped in them, not knowing any other way. Neither does it mean that they become part of a culture of thievery, deceit, and laziness.

Of course there are people who are long time recipients of public aid. And what do you do to show them that there can be other ways? Do you teach their children so that they reach adulthood with some real skills both to sustain themselves and to make a living? Do you hire them? Do you live next door to them and let them see your example? Are they your friends? Do you go to their places of worship and organize those Dave Ramsey style workshops that so many churches run nowadays? Do you invite them for lunch and let them see how you make a delicious casserole to serve eight portions for a mere $2.00? Do you chat with them on the train on the way home and, in the middle of some conversation, show them how you put a new zipper in your teenage child's coat so that he really could wear it again this year and be able to put the savings toward an alarm clock Christmas present to wake him up in the morning to get to his school or his weekend job? Do you take your poor neighbor with you down to city hall when you get your new business license so that when they have their own entrepreneurial idea, they have an inkling where to start to make it a reality?

Really, when I say that people need education, I do not necessarily mean that we need to create new school programs. It is not just large public policy that needs attention. Education that recognizes the abilities and dignity of the individual needs to be part of the culture. OUR culture. Our SHARED culture. Teaching people who are ignorant about basic skills should just be part of our everyday interactions. But you are not apt to teach anyone anything if you stand back afraid, disgusted, and judgemental.

I think some poor people are reading this very forum. Don't you?

[elessar78]

And lottery tickets, of course.

yep. Every time I go to the local corner store there's at least one guy buying lotto. One fellow I see regularly spends $12/week on lottery tix. The $624 he could save annually is probably more than any payout he's gotten.

My only wish is that we send those that can work back to work and support themselves and help the ones that actually need help. Then I think we could get the economy really humming!

Another discrepancy that I noted is that my area is staunchly Republican/conservative yet a lot of people here are on welfare. Maybe it's because people on welfare don't vote, so the political stance is more of a backlash by those that are positively contributing to the local community?

[GREENBACK]

Do we need to remember, while discussing this, that not everyone who receives public aid does so for years on end? Last time I read a figure, some 20% of the population uses food stamps (as an example) at some point in their life. For some people it is a one time use. I want to say this because having these programs does not mean that everyone who makes use of them gets trapped in them, not knowing any other way. Not does it mean that they become part of a culture of thievery, deceit, and laziness.

Of course there are people who are long time recipients of public aid. And what do you do to show them that there can be other ways? Do you teach their children so that they reach adulthood with some real skills both to sustain themselves and to make a living? Do you hire them? Do you live next door to them and let them see your example? Are they your friends? Do you go to their places of worship and organize those Dave Ramsey style workshops that so many churches run nowadays? Do you invite them for lunch and let them see how you make a delicious casserole to serve eight portions for a mere $2.00? Do you chat with them on the train on the way home and, in the middle of some conversation, show them how you put a new zipper in your teenage child's coat so that he really could wear it again this year and be able to put the savings toward an alarm clock Christmas present to wake him up in the morning to get to his school or his weekend job? Do you take your poor neighbor with you down to city hall when you get your new business license so that when they have their own entrepreneurial idea, they have an inkling where to start to make it a reality?

Really, when I say that people need education, I do not necessarily mean that we need to create new school programs. It is not just large public policy that needs attention. Education that recognizes the abilities and dignity of the individual needs to be part of the culture. OUR culture. Our SHARED culture. Teaching people who are ignorant about basic skills should just be part of our everyday interactions. But you are not apt to teach anyone anything if you stand back afraid, disgusted, and judgemental.

I think some poor people are reading this very forum. Don't you?

Well stated. My Mother and Father came from the rural south and took public assistance as a way to make it until they could support their family. They never intended to stay on it and didn't. Unfortunately, many people took the assistance and abused it. Of course, that was passed down through the generations that followed which gave us the mess we have.

I really do try to help people get out of these types of deadend lifestyles because I know it can be done and you're so much happier as a result.

[kork13]

Historically, obesity was a sign of wealth. Today, just the opposite is true. The poor are much more likely to be obese than the middle and upper incomes.

Two words: "Calorie Density".

In today's culture of mass-produced, pre-cooked/packaged, and fast food, cheaper foods have a higher calorie density than "normally prepared" foods. Cook a hamburger from scratch compared to a hamburger from McD's and the McD burger has (relatively) far more calories. Plus, when you can get that burger for $1 at the corner fast-food place, it's cheap and easy to have, as opposed to having to purchase a pound of beef, buns, "fixin's", and then you've still got to cook it! *phew*

Long story short: Calorie-dense foods are cheaper and easier to get than other foods. Thus, the poor gravitate toward them, causing a higher rate of obesity. It's a shame.....

[disneysteve]

Two words: "Calorie Density".

In today's culture of mass-produced, pre-cooked/packaged, and fast food, cheaper foods have a higher calorie density than "normally prepared" foods. Cook a hamburger from scratch compared to a hamburger from McD's and the McD burger has (relatively) far more calories. Plus, when you can get that burger for $1 at the corner fast-food place, it's cheap and easy to have, as opposed to having to purchase a pound of beef, buns, "fixin's", and then you've still got to cook it! *phew*

Long story short: Calorie-dense foods are cheaper and easier to get than other foods. Thus, the poor gravitate toward them, causing a higher rate of obesity. It's a shame.....

Yep, that dollar menu at McD's has caused more obesity than anything.

[PrincessPerky]

Really, when I say that people need education, I do not necessarily mean that we need to create new school programs. It is not just large public policy that needs attention. Education that recognizes the abilities and dignity of the individual needs to be part of the culture. OUR culture. Our SHARED culture. Teaching people who are ignorant about basic skills should just be part of our everyday interactions. But you are not apt to teach anyone anything if you stand back afraid, disgusted, and judgemental.

I think some poor people are reading this very forum. Don't you?

I think being looked at like a slug when you mention something 'weird' like paying bills on time, and NOT thinking cable is a necessity kinda stops folk from wanting to share much.

But I also think you are a very neat lady, and wish I lived closer to you, or at least felt lest cynical around the folk I do live near, cause I am sure you do keep trying.

[GREENBACK]

Yep, that dollar menu at McD's has caused more obesity than anything.

Let's not forget the modern propensity to not get off your a$$ and burn some of those calories.

[disneysteve]

Let's not forget the modern propensity to not get off your a$$ and burn some of those calories.

That's certainly a factor, but realistically, diet is a much bigger factor than activity level. Numerous studies have shown that the average adult consumes several hundred calories per day more today than they did 20 or 30 years ago. We just eat too much as a society.

When I speak to patients about their weight issue, their first response is always, "I'm joining a gym next week" because they think exercise is the answer to the problem. I tell them that 30 minutes on the treadmill may burn 150 calories. If they get off the treadmill and drink a glass of orange juice, they've got those 150 calories right back. It isn't possible to exercise away a bad diet.

TIME magazine did a story a few weeks ago about experts in the field who are even suggesting that exercise can be counterproductive to weight loss because for many people, it boosts their appetite and they end up eating even more than they would have had they not exercised.

[Scanner]

I know the Contract With America Republicans with President Clinton did enact meaningful welfare reform in the 90's so beleive it or not, I don't think it's as bad as it used tobe.

But that being said, I think where it maybe stopped in the reform process was what some of the people are talking about - giving the poor some dignity in work.

That was the genius of FDR's "New Deal" program (which Conservatives rabidly hate). . .okay, you need food, shelter, a little spending money, healthcare. . .here are some public projects - sign on for a year term at a time maybe.

Think about it. . .we are still driving on a massive interstate highway system built partially by the poor. This sh@t works! Think about what this has meant for our economy over 50 years and think about what some "green utility" works could be done with this human capital? A new energy infrastructure would be a fabulous national goal to free us from foreign oil dependence.

I know too the liberals have their hands in this problem too with unions "monopolizing" public work projects but gee whiz, you think there would be something they could do for the country in exchange for what the country is doing for them.

That's alway the problem - the far left and the far right drive policy in this country often and middle ground sensible solutions rarely gain traction.

[Scanner]

I wanted to add to my previous post a bit. . .there is always something a poor person can do with dignity.

Take that single mother of 3, where the father left her. If there was a public works project. . .let's say laying ground for a nuclear reactor or a solar thermal plant. You have an "army" of conservation workers with shovels and pick axes. . .who need fed. . .she could be put to work in a "support" fashion to the workers - making sure they are fed ham sandwiches and soup, while being able to care for the kids at the same time.

What's wrong with that? Have we given this person dignity or taken it away?

Is this "socialistic" or something because it's people helping people and people helping their country while the country helps them?

I don't get it.

Is it "stealing" from the capitalists? Hell, the "capitalists" can't even seem to get this stuff off the ground. What are they worried about? There's a time for the private sector later (maintaining this stuff and improving it).

Our bridges are in disrepair, our roads need improved, our communications are getting maxxed out, we are virtually addicted to oil. . .so much needs to be done and yet all this human capital sits at home watching Jerry Springer wondering where their food stamps went.

I all expect your vote in Nov.

[GREENBACK]

Scanner:

Your thoughts aren't neccesarily sociolistic. This mother is going with a system that rewards bad behavior. I guarantee that she knows many other single mothers that feed off the system. Why serve food when you can just get a free check sent every month. Believe me, this ain't an original concept.

She can't imagine actually going out and doing gruelling physical labor and why even seek work when you can bitch and complain to officials who are eager to grease the "squeaky wheel" for votes. The gov't makes phony promises about how they'll help them. It's all B.S.. I know politicians and how they think. Their main goal is to stay in office for the most part (not all).