i don't get so many people

**Joan.of.the.Arch** · 12-21-2009, 09:52 AM

If this story is available online, I would like to read it. I looked but don't seem to be able to find it. Thanks if you can help.

Update: Oops, found it the the Detroit Free Press, I think.
Hunger: Food desperation on the rise in metro Detroit | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

**disneysteve** · 12-21-2009, 10:08 AM

It does sound like a lot. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that many poor people live in areas with very limited shopping options, often stuck with high priced convenience stores as the only choice. Think about what your food bill would be if you had to do all of your shopping at the local gas station mini market.

**disneysteve** · 12-21-2009, 10:11 AM

I read the article after my first post. No excuse in this case. Not only does she get $450/month in food stamps but the kids get free lunch at school. And she mentions using coupons and shopping at various stores including a bread outlet, so she knows how to save, it would seem. I have no idea how she is spending that much money.

**Joan.of.the.Arch** · 12-21-2009, 10:24 AM

Okay, I read the story and while I do not either understand why she cannot feed one adult woman and three children (two are nine years old, didn't catch the other) on $450 plus meals at school (breakfast and lunch?), I am not entirely disgusted or anything. She does say she shops for deals, uses coupons, buys bread in volume at outlet stores, plans meals a month in advance, and shops at at least two different grocery stores.

I'm pretty sure food in Michigan is more expensive than where I live, so maybe she is only a little bit short of making it through the month. But even two or three days without food is a lot to ask of people.

Maybe all she needs is a little education on nutrition and even cheaper ways to eat. In my opinion a lot of people could use that education. A lot of that knowledge has not been handed down to today's young adults. What a shame to be so handicapped. To me, not knowing how to inexpensively prepare sufficient food for your family is a handicap.

I didn't see her saying the answer to her woes is a paid off house. In fact, she rents and spoke of a dream, "If I had a magic wand, I'd get a house that is paid for," Cristodero said. "I'd have no house payment. I'd put money in the bank" for her children, "so they don't have to live like this. And go to school and get a good job. If I had a wand, I'd help everybody who had this problem."

See? She is talking about a magic wand. She knows it is not what would happen in the real world. It is something she wishes could be magically fixed.

Back to the real world, she also wants to work more hours, but not enough people are patronizing the restaurant where she works. Those who do are not tipping well either. So, she has also applied for other work, even though she concedes it is not the work she positively wants to do. She is looking for other solutions, even so far as to move to another state where she hopes the employment situation is better. That does not seem like whiney entitlement to me. She may well be doing the best she can.

**GREENBACK** · 12-21-2009, 10:37 AM

Originally posted by disneysteve View Post

It does sound like a lot. One thing to keep in mind, though, is that many poor people live in areas with very limited shopping options, often stuck with high priced convenience stores as the only choice. Think about what your food bill would be if you had to do all of your shopping at the local gas station mini market.

She does state that she shops for the best deals at Meijer and Kroger. I have trouble believing that you would go hungry in a month with that kind of assistance. Either very bad food choices are being made or this story is somewhat bogus.

**cschin4** · 12-21-2009, 11:11 AM

The problem with entitlements is that it is never "enough". And, entitlements simply do not encourage responsibility and thrift. And, people expect a continually higher and higher standard of living because someone else always has more. Nobody in this country is subsisting on a bowl of rice.
Our "poor" have cell phones, TV's, heat in their homes and food on the table. I don't why anyone just thinks someone is going to come along and fund them and take care of them. None of us "deserves" anything. And, sorry, life isn't fair. You cannot make poor people rich by making rich people poor through entitlements.
For example, if you have a millionaire, you could take his million through taxation, give everyone a dollar and feed them today. Tomorrow, back to starving. However, if you encourage work, thrift and prosperity, the millionaire will invest his million, build a factory, hire workers, accountants, produce goods. And, many others will prosper, but again there are some who still will not. So, we can all pretend there is some magic utopia to be had but in reality, we can feed some but not all or we can ensure that all starve equally.

**Scanner** · 12-21-2009, 12:08 PM

I think the US Dept of Agriculture says the average person consumes about $7/day in food.

So. . .that's $210 for an adult. . .figure a kid may consume less. . .$450 seems right to me for a welfare program (I don't think welfare = entitlement, an entitlement to me is something everyone gets. . .like SSI; food stamps are welfare). Plus the school lunch program would shave off some of the cost for the kids like you note.

Maybe a pamphlet should be handed out and gone over with by someone when they qualify for the welfare? I shop at a Save-A-Lot. . .it's kind of like Aldi. . .you could do pretty well on $450/month - get cererals, cheese, bread, milk, eggs, tuna and peanut butter - staples. I then occasionally go to the mainstream places for stuff like salmon or lo-carb bread that they don't carry there. (it's funny, I am not "welfare" but people from all walks of life shop there)

But DS is right. . .these type of places are not pervasive in places sometimes needing them the most.

Maybe it's better for taxpayors to hand out "food" vs. "food stamps." Give them a cart for a week of food and say here, nourish yourself.

**Scanner** · 12-21-2009, 12:13 PM

BTW, I find the $7/day average a good financial goal when setting a budget sometimes.

I know I spend more than that because of all my traveling around.

I have gotten it down to $4.50/day in the past but I admit it's kinda hard to sustain that when you are traveling/working nights/etc. Hard for me anyway.

**GREENBACK** · 12-21-2009, 01:03 PM

Originally posted by Scanner View Post

Maybe it's better for taxpayors to hand out "food" vs. "food stamps."

I give a fair amount of time, money and effort to charitable organizations. I've always felt that was the best approach. Goverment programs are all about numbers and don't address the actual needs. Yes, it's better to look a person in the eye as you give them a charitable offering. Unfortunately the current govermental ideaology is that we taxpayers should just throw money at the problem.

Makes me wonder how many will serve food at soup kitchens or give old coats to thrift stores when the gov't jacks up taxes on the "rich".

**Goldy1** · 12-21-2009, 01:12 PM

I don't think food is priced high in the metro area of Detroit. It seemed higher when I traveled to FLorida but I can't really remember from one trip. I love all my endless stores:whole foods, tj's, kroger, meijer. Detroit City is lacking in chain stores unfortunately I have read. I don't get down there often.
I guess it is easy to take it for granted what you have.
I am not disgusted either. I guess I took the house thing out of context and got emotional about it b/c I have a lot of home equity and it was by being so frugal and putting extra down in lieu of vacations etc.

Off topic:I wonder if food prices vary a lot due to location.

**cschin4** · 12-21-2009, 02:01 PM

Unfortunately the current govermental ideaology is that we taxpayers should just throw money at the problem.

And, BTW, what problems has this philosophy actually solved? Did we eliminate poverty? The problem with "real life" is that it is counterintuitive. i.e. more taxation actually decreases revenue because people invest less, etc. More entitlements promote dependence rather than the other way around. Frankly, it is immoral the way govt dependence destroys the human spirit and pride. It used to be there was pride in ANY occupation. People took pride in providing for their families even if of very limited and modest means. But, they owned it and respected it because they earned it with the sweat of their brow. Being owned and fed by the govt decimates people, destroys their families and belittles and impoverishes them.

**snafu** · 12-21-2009, 06:38 PM

With children relying on school bkfst/lunch programs, what happens during holiday periods like Xmas break, summer vacation etc?

During an earlier economic meltdown in our area, Service Organizations [Rotary,Lions,Kinsmen,Immigrant Services etc] organized programs to help teen mothers, women learn basic cookery, housekeeping, money mgmt, infant care etc. Childcare/kindergarten was provided mostly by teenagers who were getting school credit for taking babysitting courses.

The Service Organizations involved paid for supplies; the community provided kitchens in community halls and church basements. It wasn't very structured and we all had fun. Some volunteers created instruction handouts to add to food bank bags.

Some of the women who came to class would have lost their welfare benefits if they declined to attend but most were there to socialize. Except for the new immigrants, the moms were woefully ignorant, without any role model growing up. I remember teaching how to make rice and use it for breakfast, lunch, supper, main dish, side dish, salad, dessert. My 2nd class was pasta and my neighbor volunteered hours gluing different shapes of pasta to a cardboard sheet. Some Vietnamese immigrants came to a class with noodles I'd never seen before and they demonstrated while I did my best to explain what they did.

I don't think these activities are possible now with all the fear of being sued.

**cschin4** · 12-21-2009, 08:48 PM

I don't think these activities are possible now with all the fear of being sued.

Of course they are. You can't live your life in fear of being sued. Many churches and organizations help feed and teach people all over this country.

**cptacek** · 12-21-2009, 09:30 PM

Here's what I don't get. If it is so bad in Detroit, why don't people leave? (and yes, reading an above comment, I see that this person is willing to leave, but hasn't yet)

It is bad out in flyover country (i.e., rural Kansas) and people leave to get jobs all the time. Towns are drying up all over the place. Why do we think it is so much harder for someone in a city to up and move to another city and don't think anything about a farm kid (or farm family when the farm dries up) moving to a city? In fact, it is pretty much expected that you do leave.

I have a grocery store in town, open only when I am at work. The next closest is 20 miles away. And I don't have a bus to get there. The closest hospital is 20 miles away, and the closest Wal-mart is an hour. Please find me a newspaper article bemoaning this fact.

Oh, and as always, I agree with cschin4.

i don't get so many people