I work with this guy who ...

[feh]

The more entitlements the less productive a population is.

Do you have data that indicates a causal relationship between the two, or is this an assumption on your part?

[inneedofhelp]

I think it is wrong to take the "if you don't like it, leave" kind of approach. The reality is that there are so many families who are the working poor who even though working very hard for minimum wage are unable to meet all of their expenses.

Not everyone has the same experiences, so while you have been fortunate to receive raises, etc., some people are not.

I don't think that Bill Gates should cut a huge check because he does have numerous charities, but I do feel that the rich should be taxed without a doubt. Also, with all of the tax breaks and things that occur for them, why not?

[lovcom]

Do you have data that indicates a causal relationship between the two, or is this an assumption on your part?

Here is just two sources....countless others all over the net:

U.S. Workers Ranked as World's Most Productive - employers - labor - productivity

FOXNews.com - Americans Are World's Most Productive Workers, U.N. Report Finds - Business And Money | Business News | Financial News

And in fact, the nordic countries and all of Europe are low...they want all these freebies from the gov but don't want to work for them...socialism/nanny state mentality, to be sure. It is human nature to take the path of least resistence, just like electricity.

What the European govs fail to see is that their nanny state has trained the populations be provide low productivity....it's a frame of mind that is so Un-American, and runs contra to the Yankee Can-Do attitude.

It does not take a villiage....it takes a family....the power of the individual!

[feh]

Here is just one source....countless others all over the net:

U.S. Workers Ranked as World's Most Productive - employers - labor - productivity

FOXNews.com - Americans Are World's Most Productive Workers, U.N. Report Finds - Business And Money | Business News | Financial News

And in fact, the nordic countries and all of Europe are low...they want all these freebies from the gov but don't want to work for them...socialism/nanny state mentality, to be sure.

You mis-interpreted my question. I'm not debating which country's residents are most productive; I'm questioning your statement that more entitlements causes less productivity.

[cptacek]

As a general policy, I agree with this.

I often find the exercise of "debating" to be... unproductive.

Not so much that I don't think I can't learn something from it. But then, you can learn something from almost anything if you really try.

I think the trouble I find is that a lot of people who wants to debate me is that they don't seem interested in learning. They just want to hang on to their side of the opinions for all it's worth, even when I show them to be incorrect. (If they are correct, I don't mind accepting it. But then, I also don't care for debating.)

Some will say, "But that's the point of debating." Maybe so, but if that's the case, then I find the very exercise itself to be unproductive. After all, when it's all said and done, what will you have accomplished?

Yes, there are times when debating is appropriate and even necessary, but not most of the time. Most of the time, I find that it is best to stick with the policy of keeping an open mind as much as possible, listen as much as possible, and learn as much as possible.

We should not be defined by what we think. We should be defined by how willing we are to think.

And if anyone disagrees with that, I'm ready to debate this for all I'm worth. Just kidding! But seriously, were I in the OP's shoes, I would basically ignore him. The way I look at it is that, regardless of the outcome, it still doesn't change the amount of my pay.

I somewhat agree with you, but I also think that debating makes you think about your own position more. I am logic driven and if someone can show me an apparent error in my logic, it bothers me. I tend to mull over that until I either change my position or dig deep enough square the circle.

But of course, at some point, you just have to stop beating your head against the wall. For instance, I doubt GrimJack and I will ever agree

[Broken Arrow]

I understand. Some prefer a more debate-like format and I don't see anything wrong with that. Personally though, I do think that my own truth-seeking is stimulation enough... as I tend to be my own worst critic.

[PetMom]

I have to agree with Broken Arrow: ignore him.

And here is something else:

you guys have that much downtime? Here is how you get ahead and maybe even get promoted away from this guy who wants to debate on employers time - ask what you can do during downtime. Your boss will be impressed.

There is always something that can be done - administrative work, cleaning help, learning more skills/skill sets in your field - having any free time on a job is almost like money - use it!

Bosses/ managers notice hard workers that have a good attitude. Get away from this guy and use your free time for productive purposes.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I don't think she is talking about down time. I think she works on an assembly line. If quiet enough and workers proximate, sometimes one can converse while working on an assembly line.

Also, I think our original poster recently scored a better job elsewhere.

[irmanator]

I don't think she is talking about down time. I think she works on an assembly line. If quiet enough and workers proximate, sometimes one can converse while working on an assembly line.

Also, I think our original poster recently scored a better job elsewhere.

yes and yes

and I actually started my new job 2 days ago...
been in a classroom though because there are so many rules and regulations to learn in caring for developmentally disabled people...

[Scanner]

I win every debate so follow my advice, LOL.

My advice is to pick one aspect of his thesis and then expand it a bit and then attack it.

For instance, he is basically saying he favors what is called Progressive Taxation - the more income you make, the more you should pay.

I would counter with this:

"I don't favor income tax at all, especially wage tax. I'd rather favor a Value Added Tax. . .one which taxes goods like oil, sugary sodas, cigarettes, beer. . .anything that's fit for consumption.

Working is a virtue and should be encouraged. Blind consumption is a vice.

Why would you favor taxing something as virtuous as work?"

Now, he's on the defensive when you ask a question that way.

This is how I win debates all the time with Broken Arrow, LOL. Right BA?

[BudgetHowTo]

Your friend argues from a very democratic perspective. I recommend that you read Faith of the Fallen by Terry Goodkind. He makes very good commentary on that very topic.

Your friend is right that it's not a person's fault which circumstances they are born into, however, that is not an excuse for how they choose to live their lives.

I was born into a family of six. I was the seventh and later there would be an eighth. We were very poor and there was lots of debt and we struggled to make ends meet.

I did not need to have a rich person hand me money. I took the situation I was given and overcame its disadvantages. Anyone can. They just have to do it.

In closing, the rich got that way somehow. Many rich people are self-made and earned their money. Let them keep it and use it as they wish.

[Inkstain82]

In closing, the rich got that way somehow. Many rich people are self-made and earned their money. Let them keep it and use it as they wish.

Entirely self-made? I find that very hard to believe. Nobody's going into the frontier and tearing down trees to make a house these days.