Prosperous America

[maat55]

Whether or not they would make the "right" decision isn't the issue here. The debate is whether or not they should even have the right to be involved in the decision.

I'm happy to agree to disagree on this. As I said earlier, I don't want the government making moral decisions for me and my family. We can take care of our own morality just fine. Morality shouldn't be legislated.

Many believe there is no difference between an abortion and taking your new born baby and dumping it in a dumpster. Why should it be excused if we do not excuse the other?

Just because you do not agree with this thinking does not mean it is unwarranted judgment. Again, society should not bow to those with the lowest standards, especially in states that have higher standards. I would rather each state decide as apposed to one court over 50 states. Those who want abortions will be able to get them, those states that do not want them will be able to sleep at night.

[GrimJack]

The tea parties could get much bigger and lead to real changes(not the Obama kind)

Well, the only problem is that there is no actual agreement about what the teabaggers were teabagging about. I have seen many different reports about the teabag parties and there did not seem to be any broad agreement on why they were there. Some were anti-abortion, some were anti-Obama, some were anti-tax, -- it seems that there is nothing behind the teabagging but a lot advertising from Faux Snooze.

But that is just my p.o.v.

[GrimJack]

Would you be ok with the president being able to have unlimited terms? I personally like Jim Inholfe, but because longer terms, enable longtermers to hold powerful positions for long periods of time. Many of the positions in government need turnover as does the presidency.

The presidential term limits are a recent change - FDR scared a lot of folks with his popularity.

[GrimJack]

States should be able to decide on abortions and gay marriage separate from the fed. Hospitals and doctors should have the right to deny abortions as well.

States and doctors and hospitals should have the right to deny any service to any one for any reason - this is an important matter of personal responsibility. They should not be forced to treat gays, coloreds, freckled-faced tow-headed little kids; how about refusing to treat short people or fat people.

Where does the line of refusal end?

[cschin4]

Morality shouldn't be legislated.

Morality IS legislated. That statement is often tossed about but makes absolutely NO SENSE. Somebody's sense of morality determined that it was wrong and against the law to steal, murder and on and on. Making a judgement on anything is a moral decision one way or another.

[cschin4]

Actually, there are alot of ways I would choose the govt. In terms of govt, I think Less is More. But, instead, it really doesn't matter if I want a flat tax, etc because in reality it isn't going to happen. The govt is going to take whatever they want to take and there is very little i can do about it. Ben Franklin said that "once the people learn they can vote themselves money, it is the end of the republic" or something to that effect. And, that is what has happened now. We now have a govt of special interests groups that press and press and line the pockets of politicians to vote them special concessions, favors and moneys. It is really pathetic. Unfortunately, the harsh reality is that i need to find a way to survive and prosper in spite of the iron fist of govt.

[maat55]

Actually, there are alot of ways I would choose the govt. In terms of govt, I think Less is More. But, instead, it really doesn't matter if I want a flat tax, etc because in reality it isn't going to happen. The govt is going to take whatever they want to take and there is very little i can do about it. Ben Franklin said that "once the people learn they can vote themselves money, it is the end of the republic" or something to that effect. And, that is what has happened now. We now have a govt of special interests groups that press and press and line the pockets of politicians to vote them special concessions, favors and moneys. It is really pathetic. Unfortunately, the harsh reality is that i need to find a way to survive and prosper in spite of the iron fist of govt.

This is why the people should stand up and strip them of their power. The tea parties are a movement in this attempt. The people should be able to confront their state legislatures on many of the issues of today.

My desire for the federal government to be stripped of power is for financial reasons. There is way too much regulation on industry and we have become a consumption based society that is not able to sustain its lifestyle.

Most democrats are blinded to the problems this administration is creating, much like how I was blinded to the past one. For real change to occur, we all need to see that the problem is not one party but both of them. Force feeding poison to a patient is not the cure.

[maat55]

States and doctors and hospitals should have the right to deny any service to any one for any reason - this is an important matter of personal responsibility. They should not be forced to treat gays, coloreds, freckled-faced tow-headed little kids; how about refusing to treat short people or fat people.

Where does the line of refusal end?

So you compare pregnancy(a human life) to a freckle or any other ailment. Your mindset will shut down many of the existing hospitals in this country. Doctors and hospitals with higher standards than of those you posess would rather shut down than be forced to commit legal murder.

Your analogy is pathetic.

[maat55]

The presidential term limits are a recent change - FDR scared a lot of folks with his popularity.

George Washington refused to have more than one term because he feared it would allow rise to a monarchy or facist dictator.

[cschin4]

This is why the people should stand up and strip them of their power.

You are confusing the present day mentality with that of bygone years. People don't want to stand up for themselves, work hard or suffer any consequences for their own actions. Instead, they want cradle to grave coddling and see no problem in taking from the hard work of others to do so. The world has changed. Obviously, we should always try to work for what we believe. But, I have turned off the news at i believe that the level of corruption in both parties and in the govt is absolute that I really don't forsee any real change that can actually happen other than more pandering.

[cschin4]

However, in some ways, I do not fault this mentality either. It used to be that you could get somewhere via hard work. But now, it seems that everything is a scam and everyone is on the make trying to get something for nothing. And, corporate raiders who decide they can come in and literally bankrupt and rape companies out of millions and billions and line their pockets while cutting the salary of Joe Blow who makes $10/hr. So, really, why should anyone want to work for minimum wage or barely more than that as it really isn't going to get you anywhere anymore except a sore back?

[maat55]

This is why the people should stand up and strip them of their power.

You are confusing the present day mentality with that of bygone years. People don't want to stand up for themselves, work hard or suffer any consequences for their own actions. Instead, they want cradle to grave coddling and see no problem in taking from the hard work of others to do so. The world has changed. Obviously, we should always try to work for what we believe. But, I have turned off the news at i believe that the level of corruption in both parties and in the govt is absolute that I really don't forsee any real change that can actually happen other than more pandering.

I think the reality that we are placing a heavy burden on our grandchildren is beginning to wake people up. I pray it will be enough to turn this ship around. If you are disgusted with our system, please speak out. Complacency is our greatest enemy.

[cschin4]

I think the reality that we are placing a heavy burden on our grandchildren is beginning to wake people up. I pray it will be enough to turn this ship around. If you are disgusted with our system, please speak out. Complacency is our greatest enemy.

I couldn't agree more and have done so.

[disneysteve]

Many believe there is no difference between an abortion and taking your new born baby and dumping it in a dumpster.

And other people don't believe that.

The question is do the folks who believe abortion is murder have the right to impose that belief on the folks who don't feel the same way.

I agree with you that hospitals and doctors should have the right to refuse to perform abortions. The main hospital I refer my patients to is a Catholic-run facility. They do not perform abortions. For many years, their clinic did not prescribe birth control, though they do now. I totally support their right to make that decision. Same goes for individual doctors. No doctor should have to compromise his/her own personal beliefs in order to treat a patient. At the same time, doctors who support a woman's right to choose should not be banned from providing abortion services by government mandate.

Sorry for going OT from the finance stuff. I usually stay out of abortion discussions because it is a non-winnable debate. Neither side is ever going to change the mind of the other side because it isn't a fact or logic-based issue. It is largely a religious issue and as long as there continues to be multiple religions, there will continue to be multiple points of view (which I think is a good thing).

[cschin4]

Sorry, but the current Pres is trying to remove ALL opportunities for doctors and healthcare workers to refuse or participate against their beliefs. And, our local hospital is a Catholic hospital who's bylaws have a "perpetual ban" against both abortion and euthanasia.
And, not providing or offering an abortion is in no way "denying someone healthcare".