Well, the House passes the gigantic $819Billion Stimulus Bill...

[sweeps]

Socialism.

Couldn't a flat tax also be considered socialism? People who earn more are subsidizing public services for people who earn less. I would argue unless everyone is paying the same amount (not the same rate, the same amount) for public services, socialism is at play.

[GREENBACK]

Some elements of a socialist society may already be in effect in the current system but there's certainly room to go a lot further. There are many programs in this bill that have nothing to do with economic recovery and a lot to do with personal agenda's.

[maat55]

Couldn't a flat tax also be considered socialism? People who earn more are subsidizing public services for people who earn less. I would argue unless everyone is paying the same amount (not the same rate, the same amount) for public services, socialism is at play.

Makes sense.

I see government as a necessary evil. I would rather it wade in the shallow end, than drown in the deep end. Where would you say we are at in the pool?

[irmanator]

I see government as a necessary evil. I would rather it wade in the shallow end, than drown in the deep end. Where would you say we are at in the pool?

I think we are in the deep end.............way over our head

[boosami]

IMO, this bill is a bunch of decent ideas being masqueraded as an "economic stimulus package".

I agree, and further I think it's an interesting tactic by the Obama administration. It seems like this is being used as a vehicle to get a lot of the democratic agenda items on paper. Since everyone is convinced "change" is coming, Obama can point to this package later on and say, "look how hard I have been working for the change!"

Calling it "economic stimulus" is more like a disguise than the reality here.

[red92s]

Census: .6B
NASA: 1B
DTV Coupons: .6B

How is any of the above economic stimulus?

[sweeps]

red92s: To be fair, the bill is named the American Recovery and Reinvestment Act. Not just the American Recovery Act. But your point is taken.

maat55: We have definitely inched more toward the deep end of the pool. But I think part of the reason for that is that we moved a little too shallow the previous 8 years. Unfortunately it's human nature to overreact to current events and lose sight of the long-term big picture.

[GREENBACK]

I think the biggest problem with the gov't fixing things is that they only look at how much money should be thrown at the problem. They give only a passing glimpse at the regulatory part of the equation. They will dump all this money out there and it will, in large part, be a complete waste.

Politicians on capital hill seem to have no clue about how things are for common people. I can tell you from first hand experience that when you give away freebies to people who wouldn't take a job if it landed on their doorstep you only perpetuate a culture of dependence. IMHO, That is exactly what Pelosi, Reid and apparently Mr. Obama think and depend on. It will probably keep them in office for a few years so I guess that's what's important for most politicians

[kork13]

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post... the one thing that I would like to see in this so-called "stimulus package" (which somehow hasn't snuck into this spending leviathon) is something to bring back mass transit systems... Bus, Rail, etc. That's one of those things that would have some quite far-reaching impacts... It would do good on many levels. There are a few cities who have done a decent job of this (D.C.?), and Japan and Europe are champions of its use. Yet, because we Americans must have our individual means of getting around (most cars you see on the road have 1, maybe 2 people in it, right?). Come on, Congress.......... Do something right for a change.... just once! ....please?

[maat55]

I forgot to mention this in my earlier post... the one thing that I would like to see in this so-called "stimulus package" (which somehow hasn't snuck into this spending leviathon) is something to bring back mass transit systems... Bus, Rail, etc. That's one of those things that would have some quite far-reaching impacts... It would do good on many levels. There are a few cities who have done a decent job of this (D.C.?), and Japan and Europe are champions of its use. Yet, because we Americans must have our individual means of getting around (most cars you see on the road have 1, maybe 2 people in it, right?). Come on, Congress.......... Do something right for a change.... just once! ....please?

The spending bill(I can't call it a stimulus bill) has 1 billion going to Amtrak which is losing money. Amtrak should be sold off to a private company or scrapped if it is not profitable, IMO.

[kork13]

The spending bill(I can't call it a stimulus bill) has 1 billion going to Amtrak which is losing money. Amtrak should be sold off to a private company or scrapped if it is not profitable, IMO.

hmm.... sorry, I wasn't aware of the money for Amtrak.

But I do totally agree... You shouldn't put money into a failing company. However, you can fix up rail lines, establish subway/light rail lines in cities, put up bus/rail stations, etc., opening the door for private companies to come in and use it. If you establish the infrastructure for a profitable business, then the businesses will take advantage of it--consider the internet, regulated airways, patrolled maritime shipping lanes, and so on. "Build it and we will come....." (reference anyone?)

[vonowen]

you think that package would really make a difference? what do you think guys?

[cschin4]

The country is on the Highway to Heck into economic doom from which we will NOT recover. FDR spent trillions and we got Hoover Dam. Obama is going to spend trillions and we will get a dog run in upstate NY or a smoking cessation program. We cannot spend our way into prosperity. The whole concept of a "stimulus" is assanine. Things are going to get really bad and we are going to sink into a deep depression as the govt just goes wild spending like drunken sailors and preaching responsibility to us.

[GREENBACK]

I've heard from a couple of different sources that say the thinking in the Dem. party is that FDR was on track with his "new deal" plan but he simply didn't spend enough to make it work.....huh? I guess we'll now see if spending "enough" works.

[Goldy1]

As always it's a case of the haves and the have nots. Give the social benefits to the "poor" inlcuding people who never work and let the middle class drain thru their savings until they are down there in the lower class if they fall on hard times. IT seems that if this is the case it gives people less incentive to care if they get ahead.