Religion & Finances

[sweeps]

How does the Bible "go both ways"? In no way has it ever been commended to hoard one's wealth and to pursue riches for the sake of itself. I think it is pretty clear that we can and should enjoy what we have and be thankful but to also share and think of others.

Look at several posts just in this thread alone. Many have interpreted the helping-the-poor edict to mean people should help themselves become rich so they and their children and their children's children don't become poor and a burden on society, and also so they will have accumulated enough wealth to help others -- but later.

Contrast that with another interpretation that says we should be living poor. We should not be accumulating wealth at all.

[maat55]

Lot, was considered to be wealthy and favored by God. Many preachers are wealthy and are not condemned by their piers for it. But again, the bible say's not to store up treasures on earth. The bible gives examples of how not to be foolish with money. I see room for contridiction.

This all began because I have a deep down fear of wealth, but at the same time I feel that my use of money in the past was foolish, where now I choose to be frugal and responsible.

[FrugalFish]

I'm certainly no religious scholar, but my own take on religion and money is that you can't allow treasures and money to own you-- to steal that part of your soul that is your humanity. Money is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, you are not defined by it unless you allow it to define you.

[LuxLiving]

maat55, have you done a google search on "stewardship scriptures"? Might prove a helpful study to you.


An oldie, but a goody...

“Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store”

Deuteronomy 28:5

"Obedience brings a blessing on all the provisions which our industry earns for us. That which comes in and goes out at once, like fruit in the basket which is for immediate use, shall be blest; and that which is laid by with us for a longer season shall equally receive a blessing.

Perhaps ours is a handbasket portion. We have a little for breakfast, and a scanty bite for dinner in a basket when we go out to do our work in the morning. This is well, for the blessing of God is promised to the basket.

If we live from hand to mouth, getting each day’s supply in the day, we are as well off as Israel; for when the Lord entertained His favored people He Only gave them a day’s manna at a time. What more did they need? What more do we need? But if we have a store, how much we need the Lord to bless it!

For there is the care of getting, the care of keeping, the care of managing, the care of using; and, unless the Lord bless it, these cares will eat into our hearts, till our goods become our gods, and our cares prove cankers.

O Lord, bless our substance. Enable us to use it for thy glory. Help us to keep worldly things in their proper places, and never may our savings endanger the saving of our souls." ~~Charles H. Spurgeon, Faith’s Checkbook

[myrdale]

I profess to being a Christrian, I believe God walks with me, and have been blessed me well. The act of tithing however, is something I have struggled with. To put it very bluntly, I do not believe in doing it. I perfer donating to a charity where I can see my money go to work verses giving it to the church, and that said, I don't give 10% to charity, so I still have a ways to go yet. Also I might be of a different opinion if I was involved in a church that directly helped the public.

I definatly agree with Lux that I have a certain amount of insecurity, that makes me want to keep as much of what I have as I can. At the same time though, I do not believe I worship my money or belongings. If I have a major purchase coming up, I do pray over it. And I do thank the Lord for all I have been blessed with.

One point for Jesus wanting us to be secure would be Mattew 7:24. The story of the man who built on the rock verses the one who build on the sand. The one who built on the rock survived the storm, while the one who didn't was ruined. It is compairable to the Three Little Pigs story, where the extra effort and investment and work, right now, will pay many times over.

[kork13]

I'm certainly no religious scholar, but my own take on religion and money is that you can't allow treasures and money to own you-- to steal that part of your soul that is your humanity. Money is a tool, nothing more and nothing less, you are not defined by it unless you allow it to define you.

Very well said, I was going to say almost the same.

Not storing 'treasures up on Earth' means (to me) to not value physical/Earthly possessions as your treasures, to put things of true importance ahead of the things of the earth. So what i'm saying is that i don't see that as a prohibition of having stuff saved up, but rather making what you've saved the most important aspect of your life.

[maat55]

maat55, have you done a google search on "stewardship scriptures"? Might prove a helpful study to you.


An oldie, but a goody...

“Blessed shall be thy basket and thy store”

Deuteronomy 28:5

"Obedience brings a blessing on all the provisions which our industry earns for us. That which comes in and goes out at once, like fruit in the basket which is for immediate use, shall be blest; and that which is laid by with us for a longer season shall equally receive a blessing.

Perhaps ours is a handbasket portion. We have a little for breakfast, and a scanty bite for dinner in a basket when we go out to do our work in the morning. This is well, for the blessing of God is promised to the basket.

If we live from hand to mouth, getting each day’s supply in the day, we are as well off as Israel; for when the Lord entertained His favored people He Only gave them a day’s manna at a time. What more did they need? What more do we need? But if we have a store, how much we need the Lord to bless it!

For there is the care of getting, the care of keeping, the care of managing, the care of using; and, unless the Lord bless it, these cares will eat into our hearts, till our goods become our gods, and our cares prove cankers.

O Lord, bless our substance. Enable us to use it for thy glory. Help us to keep worldly things in their proper places, and never may our savings endanger the saving of our souls." ~~Charles H. Spurgeon, Faith’s Checkbook

Stewardship scriptures should be a good place to learn, thanks Lux.

[PrincessPerky]

I figure making myself one of the poor isn't helping others, and retirement/EF is preparing for the future..a time when I don't want to be in need of financial help....

Now if I happened to be one of the truly rich and famous...I might plan on giving well over the 10% because there is really no need to be able to spend a million a year to keep oneself out of the poor house!

I also personally feel money spent on service to be easier to justify (religion wise) than money spent on things....service helps the server, things mostly help big business and take up space in my house.

[cschin4]

I profess to being a Christrian, I believe God walks with me, and have been blessed me well. The act of tithing however, is something I have struggled with. To put it very bluntly, I do not believe in doing it.

I don't understand how someone can attend church week after week, year after year and not tithe. If you are being spiritually fed at the church, which I assume you are if you attend, then how do people who attend expect the church to pay the bills? The church has to pay the light bill just like everyone else. I give to my church because there is overhead to pay, bills and salaries to pay, and because the church does many wonderful things for the community.

[cschin4]

Lot, was considered to be wealthy and favored by God.

Actually, Lot is contrasted to Abraham. Lot was a Godly man but he also succumbed to wordly influences and was therefore not so favorably looked upon for those things.

[HNorton]

Does God care if I am Rich or Poor?

I wrote this just a few months ago because I had the same thoughts as the original poster.

Does God Care is I am Rich or Poor?

I go to church pretty often, not as much as I should but more than some. I also try to read my bible everyday—sometimes I am successful, other times not so much. So I know a little bit, but what I am having a hard time with is this – If the good book says that it’s harder for a rich man to get to heaven than for a camel to pass thru the eye of a needle why do I see sooooo many prosperity pastors(Creflo, Osteen, etc, etc) out there. And on that note, who defines prosperity, me or God? I know God wants us to live an abundant life but what does that mean? Abundant by American standards where even poor folk have cable t.v. or by third world standards where people just want to eat? If we are trying to live like Jesus then we would all be broke, right? If you think about who he rolled with and the crowds he hung around then we could assume that Jesus wasn’t a “baller” at least in the earthly sense of the word.

Many days I feel like Little Brother wrote “Speed” just for me. I work my full time gig all day, work my hustle at night and for what? I have my own place, a nice car and a couple of dollars in my account but I want MORE. How come I can’t have two Bentley’s like Creflo-- I want to be a multi-millionaire like Rick Warren-- TD Jakes was on the cover of Time—These churches are big business. Are these pastors giving us the truth or are they just getting paid? Honestly I don’t know. My uncle who regular attends Stay at Home Baptist says that Pimpin, Preachin and Politickin is the same thing—I don’t know if I agree, but if the shoe fits…..

[SnoopyCool]

Malachi talks about tithing and I think most people only view that monetarily. I believe there is more meaning there. The point of a Christian existence is to submit your will to Heavenly Father's in order to become more like the Savior. So in that sense, when you don't tithe, you aren't using a tool that has been given to you to enable yourself to develop and become better that what you are now. I use "you" collectively/generically.

The rich guy the Savior spoke about wasn't in the wrong because he was rich. It was because he couldn't separate himself from it and use faith to follow. There's nothing wrong with money, it is the love of money that brings about many issues. You need money to function and prepare and protect yourself and your family.

[Gruntina]

The rich guy the Savior spoke about wasn't in the wrong because he was rich. It was because he couldn't separate himself from it and use faith to follow. There's nothing wrong with money, it is the love of money that brings about many issues.

I know regardless if you believe in tithing or not, this can be a struggle for most of us. If you were asked to give up all your wealth (i.e. money, savings and etc) and walk away from it all in a moment (even by God) would you really do it? Or would you out of fear, selfish wants make excuses and keep your wealth?
Saying yes is easier than actually really doing it. Myself I do tithe but I often have caught myself knowing I can do more or aware that I am clinging to "worldly things". We are humans and cannot be perfect but being aware makes the differences with how we respond or react.

[DayByDay]

I profess to being a Christrian, I believe God walks with me, and have been blessed me well. The act of tithing however, is something I have struggled with. To put it very bluntly, I do not believe in doing it.

I don't understand how someone can attend church week after week, year after year and not tithe. If you are being spiritually fed at the church, which I assume you are if you attend, then how do people who attend expect the church to pay the bills? The church has to pay the light bill just like everyone else. I give to my church because there is overhead to pay, bills and salaries to pay, and because the church does many wonderful things for the community.

I'm a non-tithing Christian also. If you want to understand why not all Christians tithe, do a google search about it. There are plenty of sites that discuss it. There also used to be an ongoing debate/discussion about it over on crosswalk.com that's probably still there.

Since the church body is not really a building, the staff, or the expenses that run it, I don't give special preference to giving to church organizations. I'd rather give whatever amount I feel compelled to give (not tithe) to the truly needy as modeled in the NT Scriptures. I do give some to the church I attend, but I certainly don't tithe to it.

[cschin4]

Day - I guess my point is that I think we sometimes think we are doing more good by sending our money somewhere else. I really believe in improving my own "backyard" so to speak. And, I think many local churches are hurting because people choose to send their money to the TV preacher rather than to the local church. I don't disagree with sending money to the TV preacher. But, the TV preacher is not the one who visits you in the hospital, or the one who baptized your children, etc. And, I don't see how churches can really survive it it's own members won't even donate to keep the place running.