DisneySteve: more healthcare problems

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You want to know a depressing talk I had today with my patient?

She has been with me 11 years and she advised me, "Don't keep going on like this. It's not fair to you. I'd hate to lose you as one of my doctors but I think of you as a son and if you were my son, I'd tell you to get out."

There was a sense of sadness in her voice that I have never heard before, frustration, and anger.

[jc3900]

I think for healthcare, you have to remember that the system didn't really start getting screwed up until the government came in. Now you guys want to fix the problem with more government. What gives?

[sweeps]

JC, you're a regular Alex P. Keaton.

[jc3900]

My mom is a registered nurse and has her masters. She now teaches at a local community college. From what I hear from her, some of the worst things that the government has done is legislate confidentiality mandates, so that it is almost impossible to get things done. Also, we the tax payers are being taxed to pay the bill for everyone on medicare and medicaid.


On a different note.

Every single program the government has ever done is run horribly inefficiant. Why would a new government program be any different? Second, havn't you looked at countries like britain and canada. It is a great deal until you actually get sick. Waiting lists and lower survival rates for diseases are a norm when compared to the united states. Also, since you guys are on savingsadvice, I would expect you to know about our federal debt. IT IS 9,000,000,000,000$! That is more than 3 times our annual budget. Right now, medicare, medicaid, healthcare, and unemployment are 35% of our budget. Just think what that will be when everyone is insured under the government! Instead of expanding these retarded programs we should be killing them all.

Sorry, but if you have any financial sense, you wouldn't support any proposed government healthcare program.

[jc3900]

JC, you're a regular Alex P. Keaton.

Except for the fact that I hate repubicans, as the party is a complete failure.

[Scanner]

JC,

Beleive me, I am politically moderate so I don't take the idea lightly of socializing healthcare.

But as DS points out in the other thread, I am very uneasy that the ins. co.'s rake in record profits and middle class is getting squeezed, often by healthcare expenses.

My philosophy in politics (should I ever campaign) is:

Protect the middle class, at all costs.

Why?

1. Because they are the repository of values for our country
2. They provide a significant tax base (I know it's arguable how significant compared to the rich)
3. They defend our country

It's screwed up when the poor get great healthcare and the rich get it.

And the middle class goes without healthcare?

Does that make sense?

But that's reality. I will never have as good healthcare as I did the year my family was on NJ Medicaid (actually just my son). Everything was covered and only a $5.00 copay.

Does this make sense?

I say Nationalize health care, send me into the ins. co.'s office, have me sit at their mahogany desk with a bad comb-over, and say, "You're fired."

Bust them up, like we did AT&T/Bell.

[Seeker]

Second, havn't you looked at countries like britain and canada. It is a great deal until you actually get sick. Waiting lists and lower survival rates for diseases are a norm when compared to the united states.

Interesting concept. Another article for review:

The New York Times | World's Best Medical Care?

Would things be better or worse with the government involved? I cannot tell you.

But I can tell you that here in California, we probably have the most diverse population of both rich and poor and our peoples covers ALL nationalities.

I have known a few people who have traveled back to their country of origin to obtain successful medical care all the while being told here in the US that there's nothing wrong or that there's nothing they can do.

The US the has best medical care? Nope, no way.

[jc3900]

[But that's reality. I will never have as good healthcare as I did the year my family was on NJ Medicaid (actually just my son). Everything was covered and only a $5.00 copay.

I wonder why medicaid was so cheap. Maybe because the taxpayers, including the middle class, fronted the bill. So don't give me these $5.00 copay numbers and say everything was fine and dandy. That doesn't include the nearly 10 percent of the federal budget that funds medicaid.

I say Nationalize health care, send me into the ins. co.'s office, have me sit at their mahogany desk with a bad comb-over, and say, "You're fired."

First of all there is nothing with making money off insurance. I want them to make record profits, so long as they are providing great service. Do I want a bad system though, no. The system is what needs to be changed. Health insurance should be more like car insurance in the way that you use it to avoid catastrophic injuries/illnesses. Also, the legal malpractice issue needs to be resolved. Maybe with a good tort reform bill. I don't know. All I know is that if you get nationalized healthcare, it won't be free or cheap. Currently 35% of the federal budget is devoted to healthcare. Wait till you include a FULL nationalized healthcare in that budget. It's going to shoot through the roof. 60% ,70% , 70%+ who knows. Also, I have no idea how you can look around the world and see this as a good idea. They come to the United States for Health Care. For MRI's they go to buffalo. They get surgery's done in the US that otherwise would have taken a waiting list and many crucial months of time. There must be a good reason for this? The reason is that healthcare like a lot of things must be rationed someway or another. If it isn't by price, then it will be by deaths and lower quality care.

Bust them up, like we did AT&T/Bell.

Ok, I don't know much about the breaking up of AT&T/Bell, but what I do know is that there is a big difference between a phone bill and health insurance.

[Seeker]

First of all there is nothing with making money off insurance. I want them to make record profits, so long as they are providing great service. Do I want a bad system though, no. The system is what needs to be changed. Health insurance should be more like car insurance in the way that you use it to avoid catastrophic injuries/illnesses.

And how can this work for the poor who cannot afford heath insurance as it stands? You know, the poor who also do not currently pay for auto insurance even though it's technically "required" by law?

Also, I have no idea how you can look around the world and see this as a good idea. They come to the United States for Health Care. For MRI's they go to buffalo. They get surgery's done in the US that otherwise would have taken a waiting list and many crucial months of time. There must be a good reason for this? The reason is that healthcare like a lot of things must be rationed someway or another. If it isn't by price, then it will be by deaths and lower quality care.

You talk only about the rich. The fact is that some 45+ million Americans cannot currently afford health coverage.

US is not number one in heath care, they are in fact not anywhere near some of the other industrialized nations (and yes, inclusive of the government controlled or government managed programs).

Yes, our costs will go up.... but you know, the healthcare received will probably be better. The costs of drugs will probably come down. The end results of a government universal plan might be better for all people, instead of just the rich.

Regarding USA health standings, I'd like to hear your comments on this:

The New York Times | World's Best Medical Care?

[jc3900]

Ok, you want to argue technicals. Well guess what, I won't. What we should really be arguing is if the government has the right to force me to pay for someone elses healthcare. Guess what they don't. I don't even care if it is a sick old man with a family. As long as the government is FORCING me to pay on their conditions, I will not due it. No where in the decleration does it say that I am endowed by the creator to the time, energy, and money of OTHER people.

You know what I dare you to see if you can prove this one to me. Is this an unaileable right that is supposed to be secured by government. If you can prove to me that you are endowed by God to my time then the argument will end with you as the victor. Now prove me if you can.

I am endowed by the creator to the time, energy, and money of OTHER people.

Healthcare is not an unaileable right securable by government. However, healthcare is a MORAL obligation of family, friends, and Community ie church and charity.

Nationalized healthcare is SOCIALISM. I repeat, Nationalized healthcare is SOCIALISM. If you want full nationalized healthcare in the United States, then you might as well welcome the Nanny State.

[jc3900]

Ok, if you are an atheist or agnostic(I am not sure if this fits in there)

Prove to me that you are endowed to my time, energy, and money.


Well, if healthcare is an unaileable right securable by government, then I guess you don't believe in any sort of charity or the moral responsiblity of people to care for the destitute.

[sweeps]

Healthcare is not an unaileable right securable by government.

I guess it depends what is meant by Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness.

[sweeps]

JC, here's what it boils down to. Unfortunately there isn't enough charity -- or moral responsibility if that's what you want to call it -- to go around. Ultimately it becomes about fairness. Most people feel a moral obligation to help others, but they only want to help if others are helping.

I could not see myself paying $25,000 a year -- or whatever the total amount of taxes I pay -- in charity. It would be too big of a risk to me and my family if no one else is doing it. However, since everyone is in this together, I am actually fine with paying my fair share. And I think most people are okay with paying their taxes within reason.

I think we can all agree that tax money should be used much more efficiently. We need to get rid of corruption and waste. But a 100% capitalistic economy? No way -- that would be an utter disaster.

[jc3900]

I cannot see myself paying $25,000 a year or whatever the total amount of taxes I pay in charity -- it is too big of a risk to me and my family if no one else is doing it.

All right, so if charity were to be completely "privatized" , you wouldn't help the poor. And you know what shame on you for doing so. Me and all of the other people with values will see that ther is a need to help the destitute. We will then donate/start charities and organizations to help these people. But it is your perogative to keep your money. Oh and with charity being privatized, A whole lot of money would be coming back to you so that if you were fealing nice, you could also pitch in with the Moral responsibility that we all share.

[Seeker]

Ok, you want to argue technicals. Well guess what, I won't. What we should really be arguing is if the government has the right to force me to pay for someone elses healthcare. Guess what they don't. I don't even care if it is a sick old man with a family. As long as the government is FORCING me to pay on their conditions, I will not due it. No where in the decleration does it say that I am endowed by the creator to the time, energy, and money of OTHER people.

You know what I dare you to see if you can prove this one to me. Is this an unaileable right that is supposed to be secured by government. If you can prove to me that you are endowed by God to my time then the argument will end with you as the victor. Now prove me if you can.



Healthcare is not an unaileable right securable by government. However, healthcare is a MORAL obligation of family, friends, and Community ie church and charity.

Nationalized healthcare is SOCIALISM. I repeat, Nationalized healthcare is SOCIALISM. If you want full nationalized healthcare in the United States, then you might as well welcome the Nanny State.

You know what JC, you have it wrong. I don't want to argue, not with you or anyone else, period.

This isn't about you. This isn't about me. It's not about your rights or proving anything.

It's about everybody. It's about equality and fairness regardless of the costs.

We all earn different $'s; but I can guarantee you that some people work much harder than others and get a whole lot less $'s for their efforts. Can everything ever be totally fair to everyone? No, of course not.

The problem is that there is a healthcare problem; a problem of fairness and equity and care. Because you and I and others here may not be an active participant in the problem currently (AND THAT CAN CHANGE IN A FEW SECONDS OF TIME TO ANY ONE OF US), does that mean that we should strive for less fairness for all people?

If you believe in a God, then nothing that happens on this planet really matters; it's all just a "testing" ground so to speak... for our future home.

And if you don't believe in a God..... well then it really doesn't matter anyway.