Ignite and Stream Energy - Is it a Scam?

[briandownie]

I'm really new here and I don't like to enter into a controversial conversation... at least not right away.

I'm not familiar with Stream Energy but for the most part there's nothing wrong with the MLM business model. Not all MLM opportunities are created equally and many are less than desirable but many are good honest businesses. Amyway continues to thrive after better than forty years in business.

MLM is just that, a business. It's important to pick a business based on your own due diligence and of course on your ability to market the business successfully.

MLM provids an affordable opportunity for people to build a business. Traditional business models can cost tens of thousands of dollars to start, MLM as little a few hundred.

For what it's worth well known financial experts and entrepreneurs Donald Trump and Robert Kiyosaki are proponents of the MLM business model as is former President Bill Clinton.

Just be careful out there.

Brian

[Liz Barnes]

stream energy

Stream Energy is the worst company I have ever dealt with! After I paid the bill (even checked with bank to make sure they recieved the payment) and electric service was disconnected. Now, several days later, all food in freezer and fridge ruined and still no power! There excuse is the social number in their files doesn't match the correct one I give them. They refuse to assist me and can't even tell me whan my contract expires. I was instructed to call some person I have never heard of and they don't have a number for.

[mustang2227]

Stream Energy and Ignite

Hi!

I am new to savingadvice.com and have a question about Stream Energy and Ignite, its marketing division. I live in Pa and we are becoming a deregulated state in the electric energy market. I attended a Ignite marketing meeting this afternoon and I am interested in the potential it seems to offer. However, like so many people, I have never taken to the multi-level marketing propositions that have been presented to me since the 1970's to date.

Would other forum members who may have or had experience with Stream Energy / Ignite from both the consumer perspective and a marketing perspective be willing to share your current or past experience? I am trying to gather information from several sources and one of the best is from people with real experience.

Thank you! Mustang2227

[happy2bignited]

happy2bignited

Yes, I have been with Ignite Stream Energy for 2 years and love it. Since both my husband and I joined the company, we've had the support of some of the top leaders. And since being with them, they have continued to support us. Its just like any business what ever you put in you will get out you just have to work it.

Also, like any other company when your just starting off there's plenty of Kinks that you must work out before the business flow steady. And I feel that Ignite have done so!

So if you are looking for great opportunity I really would recommend this business for you. However if you are looking for the business to make money for you with out working, then your spinning your wheels. Find something that you value and be active in that!....

[Jpo]

Ignite, as stated is the marketing arm of Stream Energy. It is 1099 income, and as such, earnings are by pure merit. In traditional marketing, if a billboard is not attracting business in a given location, it's taken down and a new location selected. I'm a veritable billboard. I pressure no one to become an associate, but, as stated by someone much more successful in this company, "If you can't change the people around you, you should consider changing the people around you" (those who can't see the point, those who don't get it, due to fear of the unknown, or consider themselves too busy to be bothered, can't carry on a conversation with people, etc., because the #'s speak for themselves), I don't take it personal. I know this company has just as much, or more, credibility as any of the other former monopolies, or johnny-come-latelys combined. Our annual convention had no less than 10,000 attendees listening to no less than the Chairman of the Texas Public Works Commission speaking on stage with the former Chairperson in the audience as well. The company did not generate 1 billion dollars in revenue in 5 years because their business plan doesn't work. It took GOOGLE 6 years to hit 1 BIL. They're global, we are just in 2 States with less than 10% market share combined. At present. Corporate plans to possibly open in 2 more States by the end of the year, 5 in the next 2-3 years. While upwards of 20 States in the Union are already, or soon to be regulated. Argue if you like, I don't have time, but THIS opportunity lets yo take advantage of what Warren Buffet is quoted as saying: "...the greatest transfer of wealth in the history of America will be due to the deregulation of energy!" Argue with him.

first of all you are an idiot! Have you ever heard of Bernie Maddoff? He had pictures in his office with presidents, senators, and Gov's. The reason I dont care about this is that it takes idiots like you and thousands others and does not effect me at all. By scamming you the company is simply pissing on idiots and the per scam is less than $500 bucks and thus not a large enough to even get on the radar of prosecutors.
You want to know why you cant advertise on websites or facebook or youtube? Its not because of deregulation it is because of FEDERAL consequesnces from this illegal scam. It now bumps it up to Federal offenses by advertising this bull**** accross state lines and reaching a larger group of victims. Get a friggen clue. Scam City!!!!!!!!

[Jpo]

I had a long conversation about this with one of the VERY high- ups in the company (corporate, not an associate) and he was very clear on why the almost complete ban on Internet marketing. The word "deregulation" doesn't mean anarchy and the utility field is still very regulated in many ways. The Public Service Commissions and Public Utility Commissions do not want associates muddying the waters with a bunch of "lose weight now, ask me how" kind of stuff out on the net. They want to keep this a dignified, professional industry, so much of the company's license to do business in the state is contingent on them NOT allowing people to have free-reign on the Internet.

All that said, I'm a computer guy for a living and my partner is an Internet marketer so don't think that we don't feel the allure of marketing that way. However, for me, my best team has been built with a very hands-on approach - what the associates refer to as "belly-to-belly". We've built a very strong team this way and it's been very duplicatable.

Personally, this is the best business I've ever done!

Thanks!

This one is funny. That big executive conveniently decided to meet with you to explain all of that did he now?

first of all you are an idiot! Have you ever heard of Bernie Maddoff? He had pictures in his office with presidents, senators, and Gov's. The reason I dont care about this is that it takes idiots like you and thousands others and does not effect me at all. By scamming you the company is simply pissing on idiots and the per scam is less than $500 bucks and thus not a large enough to even get on the radar of prosecutors.
You want to know why you cant advertise on websites or facebook or youtube? Its not because of deregulation it is because of FEDERAL consequesnces from this illegal scam. It now bumps it up to Federal offenses by advertising this bull**** accross state lines and reaching a larger group of victims. Get a friggen clue. Scam City!!!!!!!!

[Jpo]

Kind of amazing this would be posted and almost immediately there is a "rep" on here from a company most of us never heard of! Amazing!

Finally a person that has a brain. The reason why is that these scams thrive on ignorance! As soon as someone starts pointing them out the other peices of **** that are engaged in fleecing people at the local level day in and day out have to post to try to offset the truth and muddy the water.

If it is too good to be true, it is a scam.

[Jpo]

In addition, there are always people that didn't succeed in network marketing and want to blame the system instead of themselves. Just because you have a bad meal doesn't mean you quit eating...just because you have a bad job experience doesn't mean you quit working...just because you have a bad relationship...etc.
Network marketing isn't for everyone, only those that want unlimited income and are willing to work harder than most to get it.
Network marketing equals the playing field and gives people a chance to dream and a hope for a better future.

Nope a scam is a scam. You can put lipstick on a pig...but it is still a pig.

[Jpo]

Brian,

I invested $329 plus $24.95 a month in 2007. My last year's 1099 was $18,632. I have devoted less than 4 hours total in the last 5 months and each month my check has ranged from $1,400 to $1,600.

That is factual as well.

Rational Thinker

Bull****ter!!!!!! You are full of ****. PLease post your supposed 1099 and copies of your residual checks. Thought not.

[Jpo]

In addition, there are always people that didn't succeed in network marketing and want to blame the system instead of themselves. Just because you have a bad meal doesn't mean you quit eating...just because you have a bad job experience doesn't mean you quit working...just because you have a bad relationship...etc.
Network marketing isn't for everyone, only those that want unlimited income and are willing to work harder than most to get it.
Network marketing equals the playing field and gives people a chance to dream and a hope for a better future.

you are funny. The people that dont succeed in ML Marketing are victims! The reason they dont succeed is because they never can succeed in a scam. Bernie Maddoff's victims did not loose their money for lack of trying. They lost it due to it was a fraud and scam just like this is.

Your analogy is like saying the rape victim failed to give it a fair shot and get into the mood. You sir or madam are an idiot.

[ezbee]

Do not abandon investigation and thought!

I was drawn to this thread for the same reason the initial poster was. I am considering the Ignite opportunity, and am doing real live research and putting critical thought into it. It's a shame that 90% of the posts here were of no value in that regard.

Like most of you, I am approaching this as a skeptic. I am not an Ignite associate and am only doing research. I have no reason for bias one way or the other, but here some of the thoughts I've put together so far...

Not all MLMs are scams. A pyramid scheme is a non-sustainable business model in which income of members is based wholly or largely on the enrollment of new members. Pyramids are illegal in US. An MLM uses structured word of mouth advertising to generate sales for a company. Amway, Mary Kay, Tupperware are all legitimate MLMs that are legal and have a track record for actually making people money in return for products and services sold.

Many people (including me) find MLMs distasteful. This is true for me, in part because IMO most MLMs leverage relationships and parties to sell things that people wouldn't otherwise buy. It's also thanks to the cultish, systematic hype that comes with most of them.

Having been to exactly 1 Ignite meeting, I can say the hype is largely there. It felt like I was on the set of an infomercial. But I still listened, picked out salient facts about the business itself, and have been applying my own thought and research ever since. I remain interested despite my own emotional bias because unlike other MLMs, (and very unlike pyramid scams), I believe there is a) a real product here and b) good business reasons for Stream to use MLM as a marketing tool. In fact, I am beginning to think that it actually makes good sense. Let me explain:

I live in PA which is about to be deregulated. I've received dozens of ads in the mail about various power companies, each promising lower prices. I consider myself an educated consumer, but I can't tell one from the other. Given that energy is a commodity, I actually don't expect much difference from one to the other, and would have likely picked a vendor arbitrarily. It seems to me that in this newly deregulated market, competitors are facing several issues in differentiating themselves from their competitors.

1. Confusion: The difference between energy generation, transmission, distribution and service is not well understood by the consumer.
2. Indifference: As long as the light goes on when the switch is flipped, most consumers will not care how it gets there or who provides it. Cost is only variable of concern to most consumers. If costs are similar, consumers will not care who provides it.
3. Noise: With multiple similar offerings flooding the market at once, differentiation becomes difficult.
4. Indecision: With information overload of similar offerings, many consumers may opt to do nothing (take the default option), or make an arbitrary selection. Additionally, fear of the new and unproven will prevent some from doing anything.

So here are some reasons why I think Ignite's MLM approach may be a sound way for Stream to market their service in this environment.

1. Word of mouth advertising: Advice from a trusted person may be the most effective way to cut through confusion, indecision, indifference and noise of this market. If I don't know or don't care, the best way for me to get an opinion of my own is to hear it from someone I trust. Stream can spend their advertising dollar competing with the noise, or they can spend it in a way they hope will cut through it.
2. Cost effectiveness: In a network marketing model, Stream is in essence, paying agents for each signed customer. In addition, they are paying premiums to agents that can produce exponential growth by expanding their sales organization with more associates (more customers = linear growth, more salespersons = geometric growth). This may be more cost-effective than paying advertising agencies for "impression-based" advertising which may not be as effective for reasons described above.
3. Rapid growth: Energy deregulation is date driven. Consumers are driven to make a choice by or near the deregulation date. Once made, the consumer is far less likely to change again. By placing a premium on recruiting new sales associates over new customers, Stream is encouraging geometric growth rates during this critical period. According to Stream's year over year numbers, this appears to be working.

Now some down sides...

IMO, the down side to MLM marketing is loss of brand recognition. Because there are no billboards, mailers or TV commercials, you are either a Stream customer or else you never heard of them. That is evident in this thread. Several posters discredit Stream simply because they aren't aware of them.

Also, I have to admit that the $200 up-front "pay to play" fee bothers me. It's not the amount - in fact it is a pretty low entry cost, given any reasonable chance of success. But it's the principle of having to pay them to sell their product that bugs me. On the other hand though, it makes sense to me that it costs Ignite some money to manage each associate (ie tracking sales, mailing checks and 1099 forms), and having a million associates to keep track of if only a few thousand were producing sales would be a bad thing. My guess is they wanted to keep out the casual "Sure, Why Not" people by charging a small "I'm Really Serious About This" fee. However, this and the "optional" monthly Web fee are still sticking points for me.

Sorry to get long winded here, but in summary, I think this might be legitimate sales approach, and anyone who is open to sales-oriented business opportunities may want to give this some thought. Of course, those who aren't will feel free to yell baseless opinions. I am going to continue to research this elsewhere and elicit thoughts and advice from trusted friends, both skeptics as well as believers.

Hope this is helpful.

- B

[birddogbill]

Mis-informed

Wow, ranting about something you know nothing about isn't something that you are good at. You are going to compare Madoff w/ Ignite...really? When you watch TV, or watch movies, or read newspapers what do you hear and see on 50% of the content? Advertising!!! So why does everyone assume that one company is like all the rest. When you tell someone about a movie you just saw, or a flavor of ice cream, or any other product that you like, what are you doing? Advertising...word of mouth advertising. Stream is above board on all requirements by the US govt and the utility commissions in the states that it has LICENSES in. We are going to do 1Billion dollars in revenue this year. You might want to do a little more research before you bash a company that you don't know anything about. Our customers actually save money on a service that the monopoly energy companies have been raping their "rate payers" for generations. Deregulation allows competition. We are a strong competitor, we just do it differently. After all, what is it that you are doing in your last post? False advertising, which by your own definition is a bunch of crap. Buy a vowel motormouth.

[steve87475]

40/60 good bad

I know this is my first post, so im going to start off by saying that i agree with the cautious guys on this one so that you keep reading for my reasons why. i was approached by a very good friend who is a vp in an unrelated industry and a very credible contact when it comes to business opportunities. he has many successful small investments so when he says something i listen. I am a young guy with kids and would like to add some monthly residual income. However, after multiple requests on multiple sites and threads like this one, i have never seen anyone post a copy of a check, even with the info blacked out, of a value of more than 400$. everyone asks for it, it seems like simple proof. they should be everywhere, but i cant find a single one. if someone else out there did please let me know. but here are the top negatives to this venture:

No online marketing (key to most mlm ventures)

No door to door sales (key to 90% of the rest of mlm ventures)

no posted payment proof anywhere online, im not looking for the 10 out of 10000 that made it work, im look for the 500 out of 10000 who made a modest profit

the videos posted by the company as well as the pitch videos posted by there star reps all focus on how i need money and how they needed money too and ignite got it for them, then on signing up people to sell ignite under you so that you get paid while they work and so on. i had to really dig to find any info on the actual price saving that they do for the customers we sell the service too.

the article posted by several atlanta newspapers, including the atlanta journal-constitution (google it, i cant post links yet) - was extremely pointed with REAL statistics from the company and they are not pretty. 55% of the total commissions paid are paid to 2% of the sales people? ive heard of the 80/20 rule, but this company is way off.

pro's

it seems that most people make there original investment back and then save on their monthly utility bills or are a little less then broke even and get a few dollar check every month, this is a lot better then most mlm ventures ive heard of

the "pay to play" program of 329 to start isnt unrealistic, and you arent paying to sell, you are paying to get the information get trained, setup a business and lets face it, to get any real job you have to pay to travel to the interview, deal with a recruiter, and invest hours and hours of your time to try and get them. 10 hours of my time is woth more then 329$ thank you, so if you are balking at this get real and work for someone else, you will never be self employed. at 329, if you are willing to bust your hump and bug your friends and family everyday you can probably make a decent second paycheck this way. i sold cutco knives in college and my grandmother still tries to get me to get her knives sharpened 10 years later (ten years for a knife is pretty good if you ask me) but ive had enough of being "that guy" in the family. thats why the no door to door/internet marketing sales hit me so hard.

they are actually a real company with real financials posted. something rare with mlm opportunities. if they were publicly traded i probably wouldve signed up.

Conclusion-

If you can do this and 5 other small businesses simultaneously you can use one to generate leads for the other and it can have a ripple effect with great results, i have found two examples of this i can verify for anyone interested enough. if you dont have any other means of word of mouth marketing but friends and family, look elsewhere for opportunity. they are a legitimate company, but make no claims of this being easy money, just money thats out their for you to grab in your spare time that will pay dividends in the future for time you invest now. its a real product/service offering in a new market, their is opportunity, but be prepared to do the grunt work.

S





so here is to building faith in new poster who can provide relevant details, some of which im sure have been posted on this thread which i read in its entirety before posting this and signing up to this website, which seems to be a great tool.

[Ksunw]

Anything that smells MLM, I start running the other way.

[ClaMoore]

Ignite

I have done both. I was an Amway dealer once and it was miserable. I had to constantly chase the order, which is not a problem for me because I am a salesman. The problem was having to demonstrate the products to sell them. So I was definately gun shy when my son approached me about him doing the Ignite program. Once he was in it he came to me and did a presentation with his sponsor.

I thought about it for a week and signed up. The differnce is this is selling natural gas. And if the customer is interested they to can become an Ignite dealer. It is MLM, but you do not have to go pick up the product and deliver it. It is pretty straight forward. Yes, they do the pep ralley's but I put up with the same thing when I worked at Home Depot. You truly can make the large money. It all depends on how much effort you want to put into it. Its a yeng and yang thing. It's up to how hard you want to work.