STOP giving the church money now!

[Fern]

Unfortunately, many of those 'super churches' you see on tv with the miracle cures and so on are run by corrupt but charismatic church leaders, who are very much human in their greed and deception.

In my own community there's been a lot of publicity about 2 different, very parishes in very affluent communities where it was found that the priest was leading the good life, lavish cruises, wheels and furnishings, all thanks to the generous donations of parishioners.

So I say, if you want to do some good, give to a charitable group, but do so directly and bypass the church. A church is only as good as the people who represent it.

[cschin4]

I think your premise sounds good in theory, that you would stop tithing now and then later on tithe a whole bunch more after you invest, etc.
But, I think the reality of life is that we tend to do alot of things habitually. And, once you get out of the habit of tithing, it is very possible you will just never get back around to doing so. Being faithful and obedient week after week is worth alot to both your personally and to the church that is getting a regular tithe. So, you should think about this as your plan may actually pull you away from tithing at all.

[humandraydel]

I think that your post is thinly veiled spam for the real estate flipping course you sell at the site linked in your sig.

Ding ding ding!! We have a winner!

[PRICEPLUS]

Yes Disneysteve has captured the essence of it completely!

[disneysteve]

Ding ding ding!! We have a winner!

Oooh! What's my prize?

[LuckyRobin]

Tithes can always be directed. When I was a lot younger and went to church on a weekly basis, I directed my tithes to the mission program or to building maintenance and/or monthly expenses/pastor's salary. When we moved out in the boonies and quit going to church and started to listen to a radio pastor, I donated to the Lighthouse Mission and Agape House, run by a Christian organization in our county as homless shelters, one for men, one for women and children.

[PetMom]

I am like the others who clicked on this thread and were lured
to read the link and am interested in writing about your
real estate stuff.

What an idyllic investment of ease you make realty sound
like!

This is absurd, and you only sell your program 'to one
person per county'. I bet that gets them buying your
program.

The reality is your $2,500 in repair costs that you do
yourself. You have not put the expense of tools to do
the repairs, much less the supplies which most all
except builders pay retail for. But the labor costs for
you are nil. Most of us don't have that ability or
luxury (and wait until there is an electrical or
plumbing problem which most always requires
professional).

And you are
leaving out that your full time job would only give
you weekends to work on your home doing the repairs.
Unless this is your job which is actually selling a real
estate get rich scheme.

Realistically some people chose not to do this with
their weekends and evenings.

Credit though in appropriately taking out insurance
and taxes of a monthly tax flow intake (I think you
did that) and for this not being your first post.

Church giving? Sounds like you should just purchase
your Church, you should be able to with your program.

[Scanner]

It got me thinking about taking the money that I usually contribute to the offering plate, and investing that money. Then when the church is doing something that I agree with, or if I find another christian related cause, I could give the money to them

Yeah, you're a real philantropist.

Personally, I always thought I'd be a kick-ass philantrophist. I would give to people and you know who they'd owe? They'd owe me!!!!

LOL.

Get out of here, ya numbnut.

[DebbieL]

"Oh boy, I wish I was making 200% a year returns on my investments like the OP."

The OP wishes he were making that kind of returns too. What a bs artist.

[Coleroo]

While I know it's true that most churches preach this today, I just thought I'd point out that many Christians and well-known, well-respected Christian scholars do not believe the Bible teaches that Christians should tithe. The early Christian church did not operate on tithes/10% requirements.

I'm just going by what I have read in the book of Malachi, old testament teachings, and how tithes support ministers of your faith (Numbers), not by what is taught by humans today. It seems pretty logical to me. I'd rather not base my personal faith on what a scholar says, no matter how respected they may be. But anywho... that discussion belongs to a whole other forum.

Outside of that realm, I believe the more someone generously gives (regardless of their faith) the more blessings they will receive in return. Financial security (that includes contentment) is hard to build with a stingy, greedy heart.

[ericmedem]

I am like the others who clicked on this thread and were lured
to read the link and am interested in writing about your
real estate stuff.

What an idyllic investment of ease you make realty sound
like!

This is absurd, and you only sell your program 'to one
person per county'. I bet that gets them buying your
program.

The reality is your $2,500 in repair costs that you do
yourself. You have not put the expense of tools to do
the repairs, much less the supplies which most all
except builders pay retail for. But the labor costs for
you are nil. Most of us don't have that ability or
luxury (and wait until there is an electrical or
plumbing problem which most always requires
professional).

And you are
leaving out that your full time job would only give
you weekends to work on your home doing the repairs.
Unless this is your job which is actually selling a real
estate get rich scheme.

Realistically some people chose not to do this with
their weekends and evenings.

Credit though in appropriately taking out insurance
and taxes of a monthly tax flow intake (I think you
did that) and for this not being your first post.

Church giving? Sounds like you should just purchase
your Church, you should be able to with your program.

Where to start with you, one more person that would prefer that everyone around them settle for mediocrity. In order to build the tallest building in town there are those that try to build the tallest and there are those that try to tear all others down to their level.

I dont pick up a hammer, or by tools, I write paychecks to the guys that I have hired to work for me. 6 years ago I could not even afford groceries and I built my business from the ground up. Now I have 6 guys that would more than likely be jobless if they were not working for me. Our real estate economy in michigan is one of the worst in the nation, and the builders that I use more than likely would be out of work if I wasnt employing them. My figures are all for paid labor

"
The reality is your $2,500 in repair costs that you do
yourself. You have not put the expense of tools to do
the repairs, much less the supplies which most all
except builders pay retail for. But the labor costs for
you are nil. Most of us don't have that ability or
luxury (and wait until there is an electrical or
plumbing problem which most always requires
professional)."

I really enjoy your criticism of something to which you have no clue about. But most of all I like that you say "Most of us dont have the ability or luxury", as if "most of us" were any different than me. I think you might be smarter to say something like "Most of us have made decisions in our lives that have lead us to not be able to have the luxury to".

Your circumstances dont define who you are, but they do define what you have chosen for yourself.

I didnt post this as some feable attempt to get you to my blog, where I could get you to go to my real estate course, where I could get you to give me money.

I posted this question because I am troubled by the decision that many churches make in growing there needs for the super church, with the mega band, and services that focus more on begging for money, than focussing on the reason that we are there in the first place to learn about god.

I also posted this question because I truly wondered what peoples opinions were, and what other people do when they dont agree with the way that the churches are spending money. I do appreciate the people that responded to my question, rather than attacking me personally.

It is very odd and sad to me that a vast majority of the responders go to church every sunday, and yet behave in such a spiteful manner.

Remember those bracelets, the W.W.J.D ones, What would jesus do, was a reminder, to try to act in a way that jesus might act in certain situations.

I am fairly sure that if I would have asked jesus that question, that he may not have tried to attack my character, or my way of life, and more than likely he would not have tried to guess on what my intentions were by asking a question.

So I have a blog, and I am a investor, big deal. If you work as an accountant and had a accountant blog where you offered advice on accounting, and made money on it. Would that make you a bad person, I dont think it would. More than likely I would think, hey here is a guy who knows something that I dont, and I can either elect to buy something from him, or maybe instead I will just read his blog.

"Unfortunately, many of those 'super churches' you see on tv with the miracle cures and so on are run by corrupt but charismatic church leaders, who are very much human in their greed and deception.

In my own community there's been a lot of publicity about 2 different, very parishes in very affluent communities where it was found that the priest was leading the good life, lavish cruises, wheels and furnishings, all thanks to the generous donations of parishioners.

So I say, if you want to do some good, give to a charitable group, but do so directly and bypass the church. A church is only as good as the people who represent it."'

This is the type of response I was looking for, an actual answer to my question, rather than a rush judgement as to what my intention were. thank you.

I appreciate the comments for those who actually answered, and to the rest I leave you with this

"Be not decieved, evil communications corrupt good manners"

1 corinthians xv33

[DebbieL]

Like I said, enjoy the real estate crash Eric. I call bs - unless you started with $1 and double it every 6 months.

[Gruntina]

Correlating tithing with real estate is of major bias to me. Just like when one says when more churches are being built and there are more Bars being built when infact the city has grown and there are no true correlation. How you spend your money is how you want to spend your money and how you think God will feel with your choices and that is not our judgment to call and only God's if you’re a believer.

Personally I think it’s a pretty low view on God if your using the little “g” makes me seems like you’re not a believer and just playing us with this article and other comments you made seems not sincere.

[fairy74]

I do agree with the OP that many churches overgrow, I have personally been a part of a few parishes that went from being "super" in every sense of the word---until they decided to supersize and then everything had to be superfancy and different people started running things and it was very impersonal. Like I said originally if you don't like what they're doing donate elsewhere or move to another church.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

It seems to me that you are asking for philosophical, ethical, or perhaps theological input. You do not appear to be asking for financial advice. If you ask philosophical, ethical, or theological advice on an open forum like this, you might expect a wide range of answers. Maybe you should ask this question of people whom you know to hold values close to your own. That way they can address the issues that matter to you. The issues that matter to some of us here will evidently sound judgemental to you.

But I do have factual, money questions for you to consider with regard to your donations. You have said in another post that you carry $1,700,000 in debt. How does that square with being able to set aside profit to donate? Is there such a thing as profit when you have debt like that?