Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

[Gruntina]

I am not going to go into too many details about my good friend with her "unfavorable money behavior". She is dear to me and to air out her private life would make me feel like gossiping and trashing her which is not my intent nor something I want to do.

With that being said, in a nut shell she is seriously depressed, in turn will buy something nice for herself to "feel better" but those items bought don't last. She is stuck in a cycle since she goes back to square one being broke after the “feel better gift wears off” and feeling low again.

I am feeling helpless because not really know if the money is getting her in the depression or if it’s the other way around? Not sure what kind of ideas or suggestions I can lay out to her?

My only wish is that I wish she could see herself the way other's sees her.

(She has been depressed for years!) Any ideas anyone?

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Does she know she is depressed? You might have to suggest that she seems depressed and should see someone professionally. I ended up not getting really good results from my regular doctor (even though I really liked him) and was encouraged by friends who had suffered from depression to go to a specialist. I go to a psychiatrist for my meds and went to a therapist to undue bad behaviours (coping mechanisms) and retrain myself to deal with my disorders (I have several). The first therapist's methods were horrible for me and I was encouraged by other people to try again. I have a couple of meds, but the mild bipolar was a problem. I didn't do well with those meds and had to learn management skills with the therapist and by observing and learning about myself. I have to really watch the cycles cos I will go buy stuff when I am low and buy stuff when I am high. Now that I am limiting myself with a budget and staying out of stores, I don't spend as much. But once I start, the feeling is good and I will continue if I don't have plans in place. I don't spend hundreds at a place, but lots of small ones will add up. I have had to find alternatives to the high spending gives you. But you have to have an awareness of yourself. That's why the therapist was a good thing for me. I questioned her about behaviours that bothered me and she could help me see how it was connected. Fortunately, I never resorted to alcohol (many do), but the spending has set our family back and I have had to deal with that. If she knows she is depressed, encourage to see her doctor. Many younger ones now have more knowledge about these things--our new one does--but they sent my daughter to my specialist when they felt they couldn't take care of one of her problems. If she is not aware of it, you could try talking to her about how she seems depressed and you are worried about her. I honestly don't know how receptive she would be. Then learning new skills of living might help her control her spending. Cos it is a vicious cycle. My therapist used to tell me that my illness was an explanation of my behaviour, but not an excuse. In other words, I had to take responsibility of my actions once I had control with the help of my meds and knowledge. It takes awhile. My daughter has been on this journey for about five years until they finally got everything sorted out. And your friend will probably find that when she gets started, she will feel worse before she feels better. That's cos you have to face it and deal with it. Hope this long thing helps. It is hard to know what to do for each person, but a lot of people I know that have gone through this has first been helped by someone who noticed and cared. Let me know how it goes.

[Gruntina]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

My friend was laid off from a well known world wide company and she had a professional job (she earned her BA degree to get this job) about 3 years ago. She never recovered from that and still not able to find a job except for the minimum wage. She currently has no insurances so it would have to be research to find out where she can go to get any medical or therapy help.

At this point she is beyond depressed. She was aware of her depression but now its at the point where she is not even coherant at all on a daily basis. She has absolutley no energy to leave the home outside of work and the home is extremly filthy. In the past she was a high maintence diva so this is an extreme opposite of her. She evens avoid any contact with friends beside me. (I am the one that goes to her home to see her)

Unfortnately how she dealing with finances with this depression is making her future far worse and even more gloomy.

I understand that her burdens are not mine to carry, It just painful to see my friend looking and acting like a Zombie. Right now I am trying to retrieve or find any contact informations of her family. They live in the area and I feel they need to be aware of whats going on.

I strongly feel she is at the point of numbness to a degree that she might not even care to pay her bills on time if at all.

[Gruntina]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Janh - I forgot to mention,

I am amaze with you and how you cope with your depression. My mother has bi-polar and I certainly know how difficult that is.

Congratulation on overcoming as I believe that is a huge challenge with that type of depression.

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

One of the people I know went to the local Mental Health services or something like that. She didn't have the money and they charged on a sliding scale according to what her income was and what she could afford. I'm not for sure if it is a nonprofit or community type service. She sounds like she is in deep. She is blessed to have a friend like you who is keeping in there with her. She really does need help. I had people offer to drive me to the doctor. Maybe your doctor's office could give you the name of an organization in your area. And you could offer to take her. People like you are the reason people like me recover and have a great life ahead. I actually qualified for a live-in type facility because I was pretty sick after living with it for over 20 years. But I had insurance--she doesn't. I didn't do that because I had great family support and the support of my pastor (who had depression before) and some friends who understood. I really had a hard time getting out of the house and even keeping my friends. But those like you are awesome. Watching someone hurt is very painful. I feel for you, too.

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Thank you for your words. I am very fortunate that I have a mild form. I have known one other mild bipolar and two other with the more full blown (what do you call it?) form. They amazed me and taught me much. Because of them, I was better prepared with the diagnosis. Unfortunately, they had to deal with prejudices at work and stuff because of their illness. But they had such perseverence. Gave me hope. I hope your mother is doing well. Sometimes, it seems two steps forward and one step back. At least we are moving forward! I also have dysthymia (low grade form of depression), some obsessive-compulsive (gotta laugh sometimes at that), severe panic disorder (thank goodness for drugs for that!) and the bipolar. It seems like peeling an onion to get all of the layers, then you have to relearn life like coming out of a coma. But I have lots of love in my life and great doctors (took a couple of tries to find them). Caring people like you have made my life a lot easier. I am one of the blessed ones. Pray for those who still struggle. P.S. my daughter just got diagnosed this year with social anxiety disorder. Good grief. how many of these things are there?

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Good grief. Didn't mean to sound like I was tooting my own horn. I guess I am just grateful to be enjoying living again. We all have our things to deal with and overcome. I am a very lucky gal.

[PrincessPerky]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

If you can't get her into couseling right away don't be supprised, most people don't want to admit they have a problem.

in the meantime..mention others who were helped..of course without mentioning how you mentioned her....

And try doing things with her that are fun, and far awsay from stores, express little to no interest in her 'stuff' or your own, and express a great deal of interest in her job..whatever it may be..if she hasn't one..try interest in whatever she does do..other than shop.

if it wont help her at least it will help you not have to hear about one more thing she bought each day!

[boefixepa]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Depression is not something to play the waiting game on. It sounds like you are a wonderful friend, she's lucky to have you! Look around, call serive organizations like the United Way and see what's out there to help. I really like your idea of getting a hold of her family, maybe if they knew what was going on they would be willing to pay for her to get some help. Just don't give up on her. It may be the hardest thing in the world for you, but you may just save her life.

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

You do lose contact with people when you withdraw. The fact that she has you as a friend and you are staying with it will hopefully keep the lines of communication open. I agree with the others. Her family might not know and they might be the kind to try to understand and help her out. Not everyone will generously take on someone else's troubles. You are a blessing to her even if she doesn't realize it right now.

[cschin4]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

It sounds pretty clear that she should seek a professional, especially after your description of the change in her behavior. What is her response when you bring up professional help? If you can actually find the name of a therapist in the area and even contact them to see if they are taking new patients, you could sit with your friend, discuss it and dial the phone with her and have her actually make an appointment. And, if you can adjust your schedule to accompany her to the first appointment, then you will be doing her a great favor! At this point, it sounds like she doesn't even have the energy or ability to help herself. If she won't do this and consider talking to someone who can help her, then I really don't know if there is much that you can do other than continue to befriend her.

[Staceyy]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

On the forums at www.simpleliving.net there is a guy named "V" who deals with issues such as this. He supposedly gives good advice, has his own website and can be reached by email. He overcame a number of addictions. You can have your friend go into the site and read all of his posts.

[shengmei]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Your friend sounds like me.......

I can only sympathize.

I have a similar predicament. I want to get therapy, but the university only allows a student to have one semester of therapy throughout the academic career (which is really not fair because I finished my undergrad here, and I am going to get a Ph. D. in here. Only one semester worth of therapy in ten years is really not enough)

I am really worried about therapy. It costs so much. I was depressed about my fiances in the first place. I have a wonderful husband and nothing else in my life is going wrong.

Therapy would make me feel better but costs so much it would make me more miserable in the end. I really don't know what to do.

Incindentially, my five cats have saved me thousands of dollars. I got them in lieu of therapy because they were cheaper.

Now everytime I buy something I think to myself "Will my five cats destroy that?". The answer almost always invariably yes, so I don't buy anything.

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Your friend sounds like me.......

I can only sympathize.

I have a similar predicament. I want to get therapy, but the university only allows a student to have one semester of therapy throughout the academic career (which is really not fair because I finished my undergrad here, and I am going to get a Ph. D. in here. Only one semester worth of therapy in ten years is really not enough)

I am really worried about therapy. It costs so much. I was depressed about my fiances in the first place. I have a wonderful husband and nothing else in my life is going wrong.

Therapy would make me feel better but costs so much it would make me more miserable in the end. I really don't know what to do.

Incindentially, my five cats have saved me thousands of dollars. I got them in lieu of therapy because they were cheaper.

Now everytime I buy something I think to myself "Will my five cats destroy that?". The answer almost always invariably yes, so I don't buy anything.

Check with a local Mental health center. They have sliding scales I think on payment. Also, I spaced out my visits. I don't think there were too many times I went every week. One stretch, I went three days in a row for a therapy we were doing with auditory stuff. It was really cool. But I was able to skips a month or two or three quite often and work on stuff on my own from what I learned. My insurance only covers 150 visits in a lifetime, and I wanted to be sure I could take care of things over the long haul. Now I might go every 6 months like a checkup and ask questions about stuff that has come up. My daughter only does medicine and her friend only does therapy. So I don't know which is better. A combination probably works best. Hope you can find something that you can afford.

[JanH]

Re: Friend in vicious debts/depression cycle

Also, it was the therapist who saw I was a mild bipolar. She has it too and recognized the symptoms. I am grateful for that!