What's wrong with our society?

[poundwise]

What's wrong with our society?

Internet forums

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

Spanking is not illegal in my state, cicy33. Is it illegal in yours? Some lack of spanking children cannot be the root of problems in my area. I have seen plenty of children who did get spanked and who were nonetheless hell on wheels. But then, I thought their parents tended in that direction, too. Same parents tended to yell viciously and contemptuously. Teaching a child manners, self control, and to want the well-being of others as well as oneself can be done without spanking.

[sweeps]

I agree. You can teach your kids to respect others without resorting to spanking/smacking them.

[m3racer]

I think spanking is a must if it's necessary to get your kid in line. Growing up, my father had no problem opening a can of whoop ass if I misbehaved.

[aevans1206]

I'm an elementary music teacher.

I turn on the radio and listen to the rap songs...and the lyrics make me almost pull over. I can't believe my babies (students) here this stuff...and I teach in an inner city urban school so I know it is a lot of what the hear at home.

The latest that I heard was about a girl "taking her panties off and dancing up and down...".

I'm 27. I'm not ancient. I know what mainstream music is...it's out of hand.

I think it fuels a lot of what is happening in our world.

I feel you there. Isn't it just awful? My high school students ask me to turn on the radio while they do work and I spend more time flicking the station to something clean (and there rarely is anything clean on). Whatever happened to figurative language? It is a thermometer for where our society is heading.

[aevans1206]

If we take away the assumption that the govt will take care of education, more parents would step up to the plate.[/QUOTE]

Princess Perky, that's a really interesting theory. As a public educator and a frustrated one at that, I do truly wonder if we put more of the owness on the parents' plate, they maybe would step up. I like the idea for sure. I've felt for years that as the system has been blamed over and over again it truly is more of a lack of parenting going on (I know that's going to sound harsh, but I can tell when child has an involved parent just by how they respond in the classroom).

Also, I have sent my son off to someone to take care of him since he was six weeks old--I HAVE to work, no choice involved there. Because I also teach at home, he is much more successful at school. Public education should not be a substitution for education at home, rather a supplement.

[aevans1206]

OK, I'm going to throw this out there, but I don't think that things are nearly as bad as this thread makes them out to be. Don't get me wrong, there are still plenty of problems in the US and the world, no doubt about that. But I think a lot of what we see today always existed, you just never knew about it because the information was hidden. No Internet, no instant messages, no 24/7 news.

I was one of those that listened to the "terrible" music with words that made my parents cringe. I've taken drugs before. I've done a lot of things I'm not particularly proud of, but I've also turned out OK. I was not rescued by religion or a help group or anything else. I matured even without the help of a parent guiding me.

This is not to dismiss that we can make things better. I just don't see that things are any worse now than they were 25 years ago. I would argue because more information is available, it's better.

I just want to say that I listened to lots of suggestive music too, and none of it ever said " I taught her and now she know how to take d*&k." Pretty overtly vulgar.

[rob62521]

Public education should not be a substitution for education at home, rather a supplement.

As a public school teacher, you have my heart felt thanks for this comment! Wish you were a parent of some of our students!

[aevans1206]

As a public school teacher, you have my heart felt thanks for this comment! Wish you were a parent of some of our students!

I am a public educator as well God bless our teachers!

[cicy33]

Spanking is not illegal in my state, cicy33. Is it illegal in yours? Some lack of spanking children cannot be the root of problems in my area. I have seen plenty of children who did get spanked and who were nonetheless hell on wheels. But then, I thought their parents tended in that direction, too. Same parents tended to yell viciously and contemptuously. Teaching a child manners, self control, and to want the well-being of others as well as oneself can be done without spanking.

I know that if you are caught doing it in public it is. they will take you to jail for assault. I have a friend that a number of years ago was in the public aid office. They had this door that closed kinda slowly and was just a finger pincher waiting. Well she had a very active curious toddler around 2 and he just wanted to play with that door so bad. At least 5 times she removed him, firmly said no and sat him in a chair. This did not work so she finally swatted him on the bottom and placed him back in the chair and he stayed. Now everyone there could see the obvious danger to the child, though of course he couldnot. No one said anything and we thought no more of it and went home. A few hours later we had a knock on the door and it was social services to remove the boy because she had abused him. It was a very tight situation for quite a while that involved follow up visits and everything else. Fortunately she did not remove him but did however insist on the future visits. Why should we be subjected to their crap because we take the time to take care of our children.

[Joan.of.the.Arch]

I'm probably not seeing the situation the same in my mind's eye as are you, because it is hard for me to see that as a spanking appropriate situation. It is hard for me to imagine letting the 2 year old go five times toward a dangerous door. If one just does not let the 2 year old go there repeatedly, one won't have to escalate to spanking to make the point.

Was this law permitting jailing for assault by spanking passed after this happened to your friend? It sounds as if she did not even get charged in court, much less taken to jail or her child taken away. Perhaps they did not see any reasonable case that an assault had taken place. If her child has been reported as possibly needing protection but you disagreed, wasn't the outcome what you would have hoped for?

[PrincessPerky]

In general I avoid the whole spank or not debate..because of this sort of situation..one person wonders just what sort of leash would be needed to keep a very curious toddler in a seat, while another wonders why it is so hard.

I have both the kind of kid that needs MAJOR reinforcement and I have one that is pretty compliant..easily distracted from danger (not to mention likes to listen.)

Not knowing the exact situation I cannot say weather a coloring book or toy would have sufficed..I can hazard a guess that removing the kid completely wasn't an option, she said 'public office' generally we don't go to public offices for fun..not like this was a restaurant or play center and mom didn't want to give up 'fun'..maybe it was for bill paying or DMV or whatever..these kinds of things need taken care of, and no not all of us have better places to put kids during the time.

Like I said if my one kid wanted that door a firm "No" and a distraction would suffice, if the other kid wanted it, I would no sooner pick up the pen to fill out whatever form in triplicate the 'public office' needed than he would be right back to sneaking out of the chair....I am not a terrible parent to one kid and good one to the other, the kids are just plain different.

Now I can see the situation where a swat would be wrong, and I can replay the scene where a simple swat would be a useful fix. Again we do not know the total situation.

The idea that not going to jail for this incidence made it no big deal is missing the hassle and worry and fear involved when an official comes to your door threatening to take your children away...not only did you have a stressed out day of no one listening while you had to do some annoying govt business you have someone telling you you are a terrible parent for NOT letting your kid play with a dangerous door (a door leading to where? ever lose a kid behind a door in less than 5 seconds?)

The interference of govt officials hits very close to home... if I do not register my son next year there will come a cop with a gun to ask why my 7 year old is not in school..... Yes I am serious, it has happened before, and can happen even if I do register and someone sees my kid out and decides to call CYS..after all to the average American "kids belong in classrooms".

I am not saying CYS doesn't serve a useful purpose, there are cases of teachers, leaders, drs and such finding legitimate reasons for abuse and calling in the system to try and help. I am just saying any call should be made based on a big danger to a child, and the occasional swat is not a big danger...constant broken limbs (unrelated to public sports), burn marks, withdrawn child and no medical help being offered, ect, these are a MAJOR problem...

swatting is closer in 'pain' to a time out, or missing dinner. Time outs can be abused (5-10 minutes is a good cool down, banishment for days at a time is neglect) just as skipping meals (one meal wont hurt, lots is neglect) Spanking can easily be abused..a swat on a diapered bottom seems to connect the pain = bad for some kids, major hitting, shaking, twisting, use of burns, cutting, these are major abuse and need the attention of an offical.

Not that I generally use skipping meals as a punishment, nor do I use a spanking if other options work, but I do see these items as 'gray'. I know plenty of folk who hate time outs (my favorite form of discipline) ... some see it as pointless others see it as abuse, or even the opposite of the 'right thing to do'. all these theories have valid arguments... and all parents have to pick the one that makes the most sense with the children they have. (for example my youngest doesn't respond well to time outs...)

As a society we have polarized so many things that are really a personal choice.. unproven to be right one way or another, yet many feel the need to force their own side on others. If you can connect emotion to the subject you can get everyone up in arms. Yet with many issues the 'terrible problem' talked of is not often the normal situation.

BTW physically restraining a child has lead to calls to cys as well... ("let go mommy your hurting me"-never mind that mommy is keeping kid from running into the street..the call of a hurt child sends all to worry)

[cicy33]

Actually you said it quite well! Spanking is a choice within families but I don't like people telling me I can't. I have four step kids now. 2 of them listen very well and 2 are a little hard headed. Of the final two the youngest is the most hard headed. It has taken a swat here and there to bring him in line. Time outs are a joke to him. he doesn't care. take away things, he doesn't care. but a firm well timed swat is priceless. he does not like that. and he straightens up. Of course these days they are less and less as he grows older. But the point of this is if there are no consequences when our children misbehave then they think they can get away with everything.

[cicy33]

I'm probably not seeing the situation the same in my mind's eye as are you, because it is hard for me to see that as a spanking appropriate situation. It is hard for me to imagine letting the 2 year old go five times toward a dangerous door. If one just does not let the 2 year old go there repeatedly, one won't have to escalate to spanking to make the point.

Was this law permitting jailing for assault by spanking passed after this happened to your friend? It sounds as if she did not even get charged in court, much less taken to jail or her child taken away. Perhaps they did not see any reasonable case that an assault had taken place. If her child has been reported as possibly needing protection but you disagreed, wasn't the outcome what you would have hoped for?

Actually this happened about 15 years ago. So yes, it was after that. and as said above, have you tried corralling an active 2 year old?! Sometimes a swat is necessary. And as stated she removed him repeatedly, it wasn't like she was letting him do it. The office then was very small and it just didn't take long for him to head back to it. Was she supposed to hold him screaming in her lap cuz he might or might not do it again? There were toys provided that they could play with and she was trying to distract him with those. If you do have children and they misbehave is it because you let them? Of course not. They just do it. and if they found no grounds for the charge then why require all the visits. It is a way to be found guilty before any evidence is even in.

[choicearizona]

What an athiest doesn't realize or agree with is the idea that Christians believe that as we remove God from our Country God's blessings also are being removed. God has blessed this country immensely. Too bad he gets no credit from the athiest community.