US treasury sells 75% of its stock with GM

[jpg7n16]

I'm sorry but how on earth can you not consider stock investing gambling? I have done a lot of research on line on this subject because I have wanted to get into it and everywhere I read one of the first things that is mentioned is that stock investing is not a guaranteed money return. and since there is nothing physical that is pure gambling. you purchase a "stock" and if it raises you get extra money and if it drops you lose money. sounds like gambling to me.

Because they are different.

Stop reading online, and read The Intelligent Investor instead. Which defines the difference between stock investment and stock speculation in Chapter 1.

You can view a portion of it free online through Google books: The intelligent investor - Google Books

You can use stocks to gamble, but there is a difference.

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But in general, gambling is by necessity win/lose. Investing is not. When you gamble, in order to win, someone else must lose. Ie. casinos; For the house to win, you must lose. For you to win, the house must lose. You cannot both succeed.

But investing is different. I can invest at an early stage of a company for $1 a share. Then if the company does well and grows to $5 I can sell my interest to you. If it then grows to $10, we each win. I invested $1 and made $4, and you invested $5 and made $5 more. It is possible for everyone to win.



If you want to read more info online, search for Warren Buffett's view on investing.

And watch this video on Google:
Warren Buffett MBA Talk


There is a lot more to investing than just buying some group of letters and praying that the numbers go up.

[jpg7n16]

Sorry but you're wrong here. This was deficit spending. The government took on more debt to do this. That means they committed your future taxes to bail out GM (and do all the other bailouts they did). Your taxes didn't go up at the time of the bailout, but they could very well go up in order to service the debt at some point in the future.

That's why it's important for the government to sell it's interest in GM and for the money to go directly to reducing the deficit in the federal budget.

Unfortunately our elected representatives probably won't handle it that way. Apparently fiscal responsibility is not considered part of their job description.

Deficit spending is government spending. With the government's money. And incurring debt to the government.


So you're also saying that you're not certain that taxes will go up? "could very well" does not mean that they will for certain. Taxes would go up in a democratic run government whether they bailed out companies or not. Taxes were higher under Clinton, than they were under Bush. (even though the economy was doing fine - no bailouts from Clinton).

Once we are taxed, it ceases to be our money and is now the government's money. Which they spend however they choose. If they feel the best use of that money is to bail out a large corporation - that's up to them. It's not our money.

Just try asking for some of it back.

If you don't like how they are spending THEIR money, you can elect different people to run the government.


And from what I remember the government made a lot on their investment. If the remaining investment continues to go up in value, that would HELP the government satisfy their debt obligations. So it in fact may be in the government's best interest to keep its investment in GM. Cause if it doubles, that is twice the money that they could use to pay down the national debt.

[jpg7n16]

I didn't actually mean the Gov't was going to send me a check in the mail when they cash out the stocks from GM. I meant that I pay taxes and I don't believe in the Gov't bailing any company out. That is my money they are using, is it not? As far as I remember the Gov't wouldn't exist without my taxes.

No. It isn't.

It ceased to be yours as soon as you paid your taxes.


Just like how BP wasn't using YOUR money to clean up the oil spill. Once you gave BP cash for gas, it ceased to be your money. And BP decided it would use its money to clean up the oil spill.

The government taxes its citizens to provide for them in the way it best sees fit. Once you pay the gov your taxes, it ceased to be your money. And the gov decided that it was in the nation's best interest to bail out a huge manufacturer (and banking institutions).


I understand the disagreement with bailing out companies. Free market and all that. Many people agree with you on that.

I don't understand why you think it's still your money.

[GREENBACK]

Duh, people we're borrowing all this from China.

[littleroc02us]

No. It isn't.

It ceased to be yours as soon as you paid your taxes.


Just like how BP wasn't using YOUR money to clean up the oil spill. Once you gave BP cash for gas, it ceased to be your money. And BP decided it would use its money to clean up the oil spill.

The government taxes its citizens to provide for them in the way it best sees fit. Once you pay the gov your taxes, it ceased to be your money. And the gov decided that it was in the nation's best interest to bail out a huge manufacturer (and banking institutions).


I understand the disagreement with bailing out companies. Free market and all that. Many people agree with you on that.

I don't understand why you think it's still your money.

The point is that the Gov't wouldn't exist without our tax money, they produce and make nothing and I can fire them anytime I feel like it because of their inability to manage money which has been clear as water for a long time. Look what just happened in the last election, the stupid congress man stopped listening to the public and many of them lost their jobs to Republicans. They'd better listen to what we want done with our money. It is our money!!

[jpg7n16]

Well Wal-Mart wouldn't exist without our money either.

So does that mean Wal-mart is using MY money to expand it's business?? Do I have any claim at all for what Wal-Mart does with that money, once I've paid it to them? No I don't.

Same goes for the gov. You personally have no ability to change what the government does. You can only request that the people who do (congressmen/representatives/President/etc.) run things differently. Send a letter to your congressman asking them to do something differently.

Just like I have the ability to ask a manager at WalMart to open another lane if the line is backed up. I cannot control it, but I can ask.

And if enough people compain about the management at the local wal-mart, someone else will soon fill that job. Just like in government.


You cannot fire them anytime you like. In fact, you can't fire anyone in the gov. You can only vote your opinion once every 2 or 4 years. Which may or may not be honored. Please let me know when you have the authority to walk into your local government office and make employment decisions for your local government workers because you paid your taxes.

If it were your money, you would be able to ask for it back.


They should listen and consider how we want them to look out for us, but they aren't elected to do whatever we say, they are elected to do what they determine is in our best interest. So they have the final say in what happens to the tax dollars. You and I don't. (because it's not ours)

[littleroc02us]

Well Wal-Mart wouldn't exist without our money either.

So does that mean Wal-mart is using MY money to expand it's business?? Do I have any claim at all for what Wal-Mart does with that money, once I've paid it to them? No I don't.

)

Walmart is a public corporation in the business to make money, the Gov't is for the people, by the people and wouldn't exits without us (Neither would Walmart though). The difference is that if we stop shopping at Walmart they would go out of business and I wouldn't care. The Gov't cannot go out of business, because they will just buy more debt or sell bonds to China or just print money.

[littleroc02us]

You cannot fire them anytime you like. In fact, you can't fire anyone in the gov. You can only vote your opinion once every 2 or 4 years. Which may or may not be honored. Please let me know when you have the authority to walk into your local government office and make employment decisions for your local government workers because you paid your taxes.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, because as an American our vote does count and at anytime my vote can be included with others to fire Congressmen and Presidents. It happens all the time. It's called a Democracy. (Sorry, Democratic Republic to be exact.)

[jpg7n16]

Walmart is a public corporation in the business to make money, the Gov't is for the people, by the people and wouldn't exits without us (Neither would Walmart though). The difference is that if we stop shopping at Walmart they would go out of business and I wouldn't care. The Gov't cannot go out of business, because they will just buy more debt or sell bonds to China or just print money.

So what you're saying is, if you don't like WalMart you can shop at a different store instead. You need clothes. You need food. If you don't want to get them from WalMart you will get them elsewhere (say Kroger, or Target, or American Eagle)

By the same logic, if you don't like this Government, you can move to a different government. You need protection, you need roads, etc. If you don't want to get them from here, you can go elsewhere. I'm not saying you should leave, only that it is in fact possible to change governments.

And if we all moved out of the US, the US government would in fact go out of business.

I'm sorry that you feel this way, because as an American our vote does count and at anytime my vote can be included with others to fire Congressmen and Presidents. It happens all the time. It's called a Democracy.

We're not in a democracy. We are in a democratic republic. (Technically a federal republic; United States Government type - Government )

A democratic republic is run by elected officials who represent those whom they are supposed to serve. But the people do not run the government, they decide who gets to. And elected officials then take the responsibility to make the decisions with the government's money, time and resources - in what they feel is the best interest of the country.

Your vote does count - toward who will run the government. But just because you get to vote, does not mean that the government's money is your money.


Again, and you haven't responded to this statement: if you believe it's your money, try asking for some of it back.

They won't do that because it's not yours. It is the government's.

[littleroc02us]

So what you're saying is, if you don't like WalMart you can shop at a different store instead. You need clothes. You need food. If you don't want to get them from WalMart you will get them elsewhere (say Kroger, or Target, or American Eagle)

By the same logic, if you don't like this Government, you can move to a different government. You need protection, you need roads, etc. If you don't want to get them from here, you can go elsewhere. I'm not saying you should leave, only that it is in fact possible to change governments.

A

Actually your completely off on this, Walmart doesn't run off of tax money, the Gov't does. Walmart sells a product to the consumer. The Gov't doesn't produce anything, it takes our money that we give to it in the form of taxes and then uses it to pay someone to perform a job. Actually your example makes no sense, so in the United States when someone disagrees with the way the Gov't is running itself (say you didn't vote for the current President) that I should just leave the country. What? That makes no sense and no they aren't related in the least.

[littleroc02us]

Again, and you haven't responded to this statement: if you believe it's your money, try asking for some of it back.

They won't do that because it's not yours. It is the government's.

Actually your wrong in my 2nd post this is what I wrote. Read it here or go back to the post again.

I didn't actually mean the Gov't was going to send me a check in the mail when they cash out the stocks from GM. I meant that I pay taxes and I don't believe in the Gov't bailing any company out. That is my money they are using, is it not? As far as I remember the Gov't wouldn't exist without my taxes.

[jpg7n16]

Actually your completely off on this, Walmart doesn't run off of tax money, the Gov't does. Walmart sells a product to the consumer. The Gov't doesn't produce anything, it takes our money that we give to it in the form of taxes and then uses it to pay someone to perform a job.

Have you ever heard of an analogy? It's where you compare two things that aren't exact, but have the same general idea.

Obviously Wal-Mart doesn't get tax money. But they do get MY money. So do I run Wal-Mart?? Because without my money, they wouldn't exist. Just like how the government wouldn't exist without my money. They are two things that aren't exact, but have the same general idea.

And the government does in fact produce products and services. Education, defense, weapons, legal system, roads, etc. And I hear they're trying to get into the health care industry.

Both WalMart and the Gov need us. Both need our money. Both wouldn't exist without us. Both provide value to their "customers." And both have total control of their own money.

mine - something that belongs to me: Mine is the red car.
belongs - to be the property of: The book belongs to her.
property - that which a person owns; the possession or possessions of a particular owner: They lost all their property in the fire
own - to have or hold as one's own; possess: They own several homes.
possess - to maintain control over

So since you do have the control to ask for your money back, you do not possess it. Which means you do not own it, which means it's not your property, which means it doesn't belong to you, which means it's not yours.

Who cares if it came from you, you have no control over it, and it's no more yours, than Wal-Marts money is.

Actually your example makes no sense, so in the United States when someone disagrees with the way the Gov't is running itself (say you didn't vote for the current President) that I should just leave the country. What? That makes no sense and no they aren't related in the least.

Maybe you should read my post agin...

If you don't want to get them from here, you can go elsewhere. I'm not saying you should leave, only that it is in fact possible to change governments.

[littleroc02us]

And the government does in fact produce products and services. Education, defense, weapons, legal system, roads, etc. And I hear they're trying to get into the health care industry.

B

Wrong again. The gov't pays teachers to teach, contractors to build weapons, guns and bullets, road contructions companies to build roads and citizens to work for the fire department and police dept.

[littleroc02us]

Have you ever heard of an analogy? It's where you compare two things that aren't exact, but have the same general idea.

Sorry, I've never heard of it. Come at me again with the definition???

This conversation is turning to immature for me. Let's just agree to disagree... I don't want to change your mind on anything.

[jpg7n16]

Wrong again. The gov't pays teachers to teach, contractors to build weapons, guns and bullets, road contructions companies to build roads and citizens to work for the fire department and police dept.

Just like it pays the men and women of Congress to decide whether or not it should use its money to bail out GM.

I mean, they are on salary to make those types of decisions, right?

That's their job, not yours.

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Saying that "the government doesn't build roads, it pays people to build roads" is like saying, "WalMart doesn't sell you groceries, it pays people to sell you groceries."

It's a completely pointless distinction. In the end, you got your groceries through WalMart, by means of people. Just like you get your education through the government, by means of people. The education was still provided by the government.

I don't think you have a point there.

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I agree it's immature. I mean, I had to explain the definition of "mine."

Please don't try to insult me as a way of avoiding the topic. You could have just not responded. No insult needed. If you don't like what I'm saying (or just don't like me) then just ignore my posts and go on with your day.

I'm very stubborn when I think I'm right. And here I definitely think I am (both stubborn and right).