Buying organic vs. saving $$

[TBH]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

When I shop, I buy organic produce if the price isn't too much higher than the regular produce. Some things I always buy organic--carrots, apples, a few other things. I'm more likely to spring for organic if I'm buying something specifically for the baby. I also buy organic canned soups a lot because they're just healthier all around usually--less salt, more vegetarian options, more beans and other non-meat protein. Aside from soups, I get most of my processed foods at the mainstream store, so none of that is organic.

When SO shops, he is much more willing to buy organic even if it's pricier. He also doesn't bother with things like coupons, and he often forgets his frequent buyer card, so we get no discount (and no Upromise credit!).

I really try to be the one who does the grocery shopping. When he goes, I always feel like I could have saved us some money but this is probably my imagination.

[frugalista]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Organic is my gold standard but I can't/don't always buy that stuff.

Also important to me is buying local. It seems odd to waste vast amaounts of energy to transport food half way across the planet when there's no real need. It's even more odd to religiously buy organic when if has too many 'food miles' attached to it.

To be frugal and ethical investigate what foods are produced local and enjoy cheap seasonal products?

Avoid supermarkets if possible as the merely suck money out of the local economy, encourage more car use and sprawl and put the screws to farmers and small suppliers.

To get the cost of your organic stuff down, why not team up with friends to start a food buying group/co-op and put in a big order to a wholesaler.

[DivaJen]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Also important to me is buying local. It seems odd to waste vast amaounts of energy to transport food half way across the planet when there's no real need. It's even more odd to religiously buy organic when if has too many 'food miles' attached to it.

To be frugal and ethical investigate what foods are produced local and enjoy cheap seasonal products?

Good point and one I often forget to take into consideration. Thank you for the reminder.

[flash]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Good and bad news...the industry trend is LARGELY going to "organic", "natural", "trans free", etc. Everything from chicken nuggets in wholegrain breading to that famous sandwich cookie. The packaging makes it more difficult to distinguish "good" and "bad".

It may drive prices in the long run...anyone try the Ragu Organic? It started at $4 a jar, but dropped to $1 (plus those 75 cent coupons they put out when it was $4 a jar...). But did any one who uses organic regularly buy it?

[DivaJen]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

I tried the Ragu organic (with coupon, thank you flash!). It was pretty good - not the best spaghetti sauce I've ever had, but better than I thought it would be. I'd buy it again.

[pyotr]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

It's true that organic foods have been shown to be lower in synthetic pesticides - when kids eat conventional produce, they pee out pesticides in large amounts, when the same kids switch out to organic produce, they stop peeing out these pesticides (studies published last Fall). Yet there is still no research showing what if any damage or harm comes to humans from being exposed to these pesticides (theoretical concerns only). In addition, there is good research showing that "organic produce" have higher levels of non-synthetic ("natural") pesticides (like pyrethrins and rotenones). Unfortunately, neither the FDA nor the organic certifying organizations are measuring and monitoring these "natural" pesticide classifications. There is plentiful evidence in animal studies that many of these "natural" pesticides (which the organic industry ignores) are just as harmful as "synthetic" pesticides that the organic industry vilifies so much.

Secondly, there have been several good studies demonstrating that organic produce are more contaminated with pathogenic bacteria (various strains of E.coli, Salmonella, and other enteric bacteria). That is, organic produce are "dirtier" than conventional produce. This is a byproduct of the "organic" manure smeared on organic produce in order to fertilize them. I don't think this method is in any way "healthier" or more nutritional than conventional fertilizing methods using cleaner nitrogen fertilizers - it is in fact much more dangerous.

Large-scale antibiotic use in corporate farming is a huge problem and needs to be curtailed. Despite indications suggesting a greater awareness of the dangers of antibiotic overusage by organic farmers and a "desire" to withhold antibiotic/antifungal etc. usage in their husbandry, it is quite clear that almost all organic farms, especially the large organic corporations, use antibiotics systematically in order to maintain their animals/plants.

There is a demonization of "genetically-modified" foods by the pro-organic crowd also - all conjured up by people who don't understand what a genetic modification is. I guess if you don't understand it, you're against it. I think it's time for the organic industry and the rest of the pro-organic crowd to pay more attention to these and other problems with the organic industry. By other problems, I'm talking about the fundamental potential for corruption within the organic certification process (politically, financially, etc.).

I'm tempted to buy organic apples, oranges, carrots, celery. I don't because the prices are outrageous and I've not found any evidence that eating organic is in fact healthier for me and my kids. Kids peeing pesticides does sound shocking and repulsive, but that's just an emotional response. I'd love to see some real evidence that organic produce reduces the incidence of cancer, childhood developmental delays, or any other plausible end-results. My guess is that we'll never see such evidence because in fact the contrary may be true. So don't think you're superior just because you eat organic - you may just be getting duped by the industry.

[flash]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

There are just so many errors in your information, I don't know where to start. Contrary, fern, divajen, kashi? Anyone?

[starving_student]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

There is hardly any organic food in any mainstream grocery store (Albertson, Safeway, Frys...etc...) and Whatever is there is hugely overpriced. I eat organic and usually for cheaper than the price of non organic food. You have to know where to shop and be willing to make several stop. Trader's Joes have organic pasta for 99 cents a pound which is roughly the price that you find for non organic pasta. They have organic sauce for 2$ a pot etc..., Go to a few health food store and buy the best deals in each.

[lrjohnson]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Trader's Joes have organic pasta for 99 cents a pound which is roughly the price that you find for non organic pasta. .

What area are you shopping in? I'm definitely pro-organic, and I'm even pro-spending-more-on-organic but I never pay over fifty cents a pound for pasta. For me it would be double. I love Trader Joe's and do need more organic foods in my diet, but to me that's a huge increase.

[starving_student]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

You can buy bulk organic flour for 45cents a pound at Wild oat and make up your own pasta. That will come up to less than 50cents a pound.

[flash]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Our Safeway carries everything from Kashi to Amy's to Bobs Red Mill, to Seeds of Change...they also have their own organic line, which is certified, and recently had $1 off coupons on their line, for maybe three months...made things very reasonable. MOST stores are picking up organic lines, and almost every major manufacturer is adding organic.

Kraft Foods gained almost 5% revenues just from new organic products this QUARTER. I have my own opinions on organic Chips Ahoy, etc., but it's a huge trend, the number one trend for the year for all manufacturers. Target has their own line. Walmart is investing in their own line.

It's EXTREMELY different marketing and slotting for 2006, though. Don't look in specialty aisles, the slotting is done in mainstream aisles, right next to the "regular" products.

There are a large number of manufacturer coupons for organics, too.

[Fern]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

It's true that organic foods have been shown to be lower in synthetic pesticides - when kids eat conventional produce, they pee out pesticides in large amounts, when the same kids switch out to organic produce, they stop peeing out these pesticides (studies published last Fall). Yet there is still no research showing what if any damage or harm comes to humans from being exposed to these pesticides (theoretical concerns only). In addition, there is good research showing that "organic produce" have higher levels of non-synthetic ("natural") pesticides (like pyrethrins and rotenones). Unfortunately, neither the FDA nor the organic certifying organizations are measuring and monitoring these "natural" pesticide classifications. There is plentiful evidence in animal studies that many of these "natural" pesticides (which the organic industry ignores) are just as harmful as "synthetic" pesticides that the organic industry vilifies so much.

Secondly, there have been several good studies demonstrating that organic produce are more contaminated with pathogenic bacteria (various strains of E.coli, Salmonella, and other enteric bacteria). That is, organic produce are "dirtier" than conventional produce. This is a byproduct of the "organic" manure smeared on organic produce in order to fertilize them. I don't think this method is in any way "healthier" or more nutritional than conventional fertilizing methods using cleaner nitrogen fertilizers - it is in fact much more dangerous.

Large-scale antibiotic use in corporate farming is a huge problem and needs to be curtailed. Despite indications suggesting a greater awareness of the dangers of antibiotic overusage by organic farmers and a "desire" to withhold antibiotic/antifungal etc. usage in their husbandry, it is quite clear that almost all organic farms, especially the large organic corporations, use antibiotics systematically in order to maintain their animals/plants.

There is a demonization of "genetically-modified" foods by the pro-organic crowd also - all conjured up by people who don't understand what a genetic modification is. I guess if you don't understand it, you're against it. I think it's time for the organic industry and the rest of the pro-organic crowd to pay more attention to these and other problems with the organic industry. By other problems, I'm talking about the fundamental potential for corruption within the organic certification process (politically, financially, etc.).

I'm tempted to buy organic apples, oranges, carrots, celery. I don't because the prices are outrageous and I've not found any evidence that eating organic is in fact healthier for me and my kids. Kids peeing pesticides does sound shocking and repulsive, but that's just an emotional response. I'd love to see some real evidence that organic produce reduces the incidence of cancer, childhood developmental delays, or any other plausible end-results. My guess is that we'll never see such evidence because in fact the contrary may be true. So don't think you're superior just because you eat organic - you may just be getting duped by the industry.

Well, you've all probably heard that Walmart will introduce a huge organic line, effectively bringing healthy eating to the masses.

I'm not sure where you get your info from, but i don't think it's true that organic farmers routinely use antibiotics. Also, the reason you may not find a study that 'proves' years of eating organic reduces the incidence of cancer is because it would be impossible to conduct a rigorous scientific test that would discount for other factors entirely independent of eating organic. For instance, how would you know that an adult who spent 30 years eating only organic was cancer free, becus of eating organic or becus he also led a healthy lifestyle in other ways, such as regularly exercising, maintaining a healthy body weight, family genetics and so on?

It is true that even organic produce contains small residual amounts of pesticides. So it's not entirely organic, but certainly a great deal safer to eat than produce grown using conventional pesticides. The residual amounts show up on organic produce becus many farmers grow produce both organically and not organiclly, and when the not organic fields are being sprayed, depending on wind conditons, there's a certain amount of pesticide blown around. I address this concern by using Veggie Wash spray, which is supposed to remove various residues more effectively than water alone. Their website references their own studies as to effectiveness. Do I have absolute proof? No, but for the price i pay for it, it's worth it.

The whole genetic modification of food is an entirely separate issue. It's not just pro-organic people who oppose it, by the way, becus the issues are entirely different than using pesticides, or not.

[simpleselu]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

I will only buy natural, hormone-free, anti-biotic free meat, which means a good sale on burger is $3/lb. We just don't use a ton of meat anymore, I can't remember the last time I had a "piece" of meat. And I did break down and buy a conventional turkey tenderloin.

I have a stockpile of Stonyfield Farms and Organic Valley coupons so on a super doubles week I get milk, yogurt, butter, cheese, cream cheese, etc. cheaper than I would a conventional product.

With Santa Cruz coupons, I've gotten FREE lemonade and applesauce.

I will only buy organic berries and spinach, but I go with whatever is cheaper for the rest of my produce.

Since I buy grains in bulk, organic and conventional are about the same, and conventionals are more expensive if they are not bulk due to packaging.

Mainly, I keep my foods simple and cook from scratch (and I mean, scratch, no canned soup or premade biscuits for me). DH and I spend less than $100 on food and $20 of that is for breakfast out at the organic diner.

[mariec99]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

Buying high quality and organic food is a priority for me, so in order to do that and not break the bank, I do not eat fast food and I limit restaurant meals with friends to twice per month. I take lunch to work (usually salad or leftovers). I feel that if I take care of my health, I will have fewer medical bills, better skin, etc and save money in the end.

There are also some items for which organic is not as critical. For example, conventially grown watermelon is ok since you don't eat the rind. But cherries, which have thin, edible skins and absorb pesticides more easily, would be better if organic. Always wash fruits and veggies throughly.

NOTE: Some foods labeled natural still have HIGH-FRUCTOSE CORN SYRUP in them. So always check the labels.

[Fern]

Re: Buying organic vs. saving $$

i find it reallyl hard to eat what i consider 'healthy' because my SO is just the opposite. Here's his typical diet:
* Tons of soda, all day long (he's in perfect physical shape, ironically)
* Lots of red meat
* lots of sugary sweet breakfast cereals, muffins and cakes, desserts, a real sweet tooth

he does a lot of the cooking (grilling) when we're together, so it's hard often to pass up something that just smells delicisous, even tho if i were by myself i wouldn't even have purchased it.

i solve this dilemma by eating my very simple mostly non-meat meals M-F, then indulging on the weekends. Wish i could do better tho