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Old 09-12-2017, 08:26 AM
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Overheard an acquaintance saying his son who is nearing the end of veterinary school education has racked up almost $300,000 in student loans. He's been in school nine years and some of the education was at remote locations.

Just read that the average pay for this profession is just shy of $100K annually.
  • He's going to miserable for at least 10 years paying this back.
  • I can't believe they will actually loan a kid with no job $300K.
  • What were the parents thinking, letting him dig such a deep hole?
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Old 09-12-2017, 08:52 AM
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Yea that is a really sad outcome, to have to pay soooo much money just to get a chance to work in a field.

Although, judging by this person's expenses and time frame there are some assumptions... It is likely he was living out of state, and paying for Food + living out of that. In a lot of cases those can be offset by going to a local school for the first few years (if applicable) and staying @ home.

I graduated last year w/ a bachelors in business, and I think the total cost for my 4 year degree + books was roughly $40k. (at a public university too, Eastern Michigan University).

I think a lot of these cases with extravagant costs that we hear about, are due to poor / careless planning for university situations. Generally people that go to super high end schools for a significant premium that is generally not the best ROI for the cost per credit hour and also live on student loans w/ little to no work to subsidize the cost.

I think they still put out a list for highest ROI per credit hour online somewhere.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:27 AM
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Thats around $33k/year...which isnt that extravagant. If someone chooses to go that long the bill is going to rack up. Its their choice though.

They were loaned that money because they will have to pay it back. Not going to wipe that type of debt if they file bankruptcy.

People take 20+ years to pay their schooling off...they dont have to do it tomorrow.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fishindude77 View Post
Overheard an acquaintance saying his son who is nearing the end of veterinary school education has racked up almost $300,000 in student loans. He's been in school nine years and some of the education was at remote locations.

Just read that the average pay for this profession is just shy of $100K annually.
  • He's going to miserable for at least 10 years paying this back.
  • I can't believe they will actually loan a kid with no job $300K.
  • What were the parents thinking, letting him dig such a deep hole?
This is not at all unusual for professionals. I'm sure plenty of doctors graduate med school owing something in that neighborhood. I graduated owing just over 100K and that was 27 years ago. Inflation-adjusted, that's nearly 200K in today's dollars. And education inflation has outpaced the overall inflation rate for years so 300K is probably right on target.

My goal was to repay it in 10 years and I would have done so except I changed jobs about 7 years into the process and that threw me off track. I ended up finishing repayment in 12 years which was still way ahead of most of my peers. Keep in mind that those are 25-year loans. We were definitely frugal but we were absolutely not miserable by any measure.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:35 AM
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Thats around $33k/year...which isnt that extravagant.
Seems so to me. After the "get decent grades in HS and go to a state school" discount, an undergraduate degree at our flagship state school is only $14K/year, and that includes room+board.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:56 AM
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Seems so to me. After the "get decent grades in HS and go to a state school" discount, an undergraduate degree at our flagship state school is only $14K/year, and that includes room+board.
You have to add in the cost of vet school.

I finished undergrad owing 14K.
I finished med school owing 102K.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:57 AM
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From the Veterinary Information Network

Quote:
For those entering veterinary school in the Fall of 2016, the estimated total cost of attendance (tuition + fees + average living expenses, assuming a 4% increase each year) for four years ranges from $147,000 to $250,000 for in-state resident tuition at a public institution. Non-resident tuition at public institutions ranges from $191,000 to $338,000. At private institutions the total estimated cost ranges from $264,000 to $393,000.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by amarowsky View Post
I think a lot of these cases with extravagant costs that we hear about, are due to poor / careless planning for university situations.
Again, you need to look at the cost of professional school, not undergrad. I'm willing to bet the vast majority of that debt is for vet school, not undergrad.

Professional schools are expensive, even at public universities as I posted above.

I don't think the average person has any clue what their doctor or vet went through to get into their career.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:28 AM
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Seems pretty insane for a $100K job.
A construction superintendent with HS education or a good car salesmen with HS education can make that kind of money
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:48 AM
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Seems pretty insane for a $100K job.
A construction superintendent with HS education or a good car salesmen with HS education can make that kind of money
But think of the chihuahuas!!
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Fishindude77 View Post
Seems pretty insane for a $100K job.
A construction superintendent with HS education or a good car salesmen with HS education can make that kind of money
Remember that the next time you go to the doctor or take your pup to the vet.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Fishindude77 View Post
Seems pretty insane for a $100K job.
A construction superintendent with HS education or a good car salesmen with HS education can make that kind of money
Most people dont go to be a vet or a doctor because of the pay...its usually a passion thing. They want to help people/animals.

You're right...it would be easier to be a wall street banker...or a medical sales rep...I guess they can make a lot of money too. Plenty of jobs than can easily fetch $100k+++ with minimal education. But if you hate the job is it worth it?

I know 1 doctor, 2 surgeons and a 2 vets...the 2 vets are obsessed with the well being of animals. The one doctor is a pediatrician. Shes comes from a big family...keeps having kids herself and loves to interact/help kids. And the 2 surgeons...you guessed it...are obsessed with repairing people. They're both annoyingly cheap...spend next to no money. Why would they pick an occupation that pays them each around 175k (just finished residency) when they could live off a $30k/year job? In a couple years they'll both make a combined $500k or more. They do it because they love it.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:56 AM
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Remember that the next time you go to the doctor or take your pup to the vet.
Amen!
I wouldn't go through all of that schooling, miss all those years of earning, and do those jobs for $100K.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:02 AM
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Originally Posted by Fishindude77 View Post
Amen!
I wouldn't go through all of that schooling, miss all those years of earning, and do those jobs for $100K.
And have to pay substantial malpractice insurance, be on call 24/7, deal with crushing government regulations and insurance company policies, etc.
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Old 09-12-2017, 11:08 AM
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it's actually kinda normal for medicine. But the expected salary is much higher than for 4 year degree programs that it should offset. One of my old optometrists chatted with me about this a while back, he basically said I should be glad I chose something else instead of medicine (from a financial perspective). They basically go school into their 30s, then spend their 30s paying off debt. Afterwards, are you able to start building a positive net worth, buying a house etc.

One of my friends is a dentist, who has a pretty close network of friends (all doctors, dentists, etc), and they're all kinda in that same boat. Working their assess off now to try to build a practice, or work their hours,etc etc. to pay off debt so it'll hopefully pay off later. And they hopefully make a much greater income than 100k later. Yeah, not a good idea if you're doing it just for the money.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:47 AM
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Vets don't do it for the money. Everyone I know and I had a roommate who became one do it for love of animals. I mean she was working two vet tech jobs for 3 years because she bombed the interviews then got into one of 11 vet schools and I know she racked up something like $300k in loans at Cornell.

And she's paying it back but still loving her job. I have serious respect that she loves it. It's not like some specialities in medicine that make bank.

And we probably need to consider how many people don't go to medical/professional school because of costs? Perhaps the answer is to push for more acceptance and less cost by really pushing people to work in underpriviledged areas.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:37 AM
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Vets don't do it for the money.
Neither do doctors.

There are far easier ways to make a living. Anyone going into medicine for the money is going to be very disappointed and very unhappy. If you don't have a real passion for it, you'll never last.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:07 AM
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Neither do doctors.

There are far easier ways to make a living. Anyone going into medicine for the money is going to be very disappointed and very unhappy. If you don't have a real passion for it, you'll never last.
Actually more than a few of the smartest people I know didn't go to medical school. They went to nursing or PA because of the time and money commitment. They said it wasn't worth it financially because of malpractice, years of study, etc. They did the MCAT and scored well and could have gone but didn't.

financially if you really run the numbers most doctors/vets/professional/graduate schools you are still in school getting traction by the time Mr Money Mustache retired at age 30. Sigh. If I knew now what I didn't at 22, I'd have worked and saved every penny instead. My DH too. We're both over educated and underpaid probably.

If we hadn't been frugal we wouldn't be in the position we are in now, we're way ahead of most of our peers in our education group financially. But we had to really struggle to catch anyone like MMM.
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Old 09-19-2017, 01:15 PM
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financially if you really run the numbers most doctors/vets/professional/graduate schools you are still in school getting traction by the time Mr Money Mustache retired at age 30. Sigh. If I knew now what I didn't at 22, I'd have worked and saved every penny instead. My DH too. We're both over educated and underpaid probably.
In hindsight, I feel the same way. But everything is easier in hindsight. I earned a second degree and a minor, which took me 1.5 years longer. If instead, I started my career, it would mean that I'd have been able to earn and save for that period of time, plus I'd be that much farter ahead in subsequent years (in terms of raises, etc).

Say for instance if I managed to save $30k in that period of time and invested in the stock market, which earned a nominal 8%/year for the next 43 years. (age 65) That's over $750,000 by the time I hit retirement age. In terms of saving, what you do in those early years in your 20s matter the most.
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Old 09-19-2017, 06:37 PM
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In hindsight, I feel the same way. But everything is easier in hindsight. I earned a second degree and a minor, which took me 1.5 years longer.
The extra education did not benefit you?

Quote:
Say for instance if I managed to save $30k in that period of time
The cost of that extra education (which seems high for 1974)?
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